Loss date He 111H-3, Wnr 5682, 3./Kgr100

[Hans Nauta]

Dear all,

I've filed the loss of He 111H-3 6N+KL of 3./Kgr100 on 25th June 1941, presumably shot down by a Defiant of 255 Sqdn over the North Sea at 01.05 hrs.

However, the Volksbund database shows the date of death of 23rd June 1941 for two of the crew members.

Have I misfiled something or is this an error in the database of the Volksbund? (think the first option...)

Thanks in advance!

Hans Nauta

[Chris Goss]

This ac was apparently lost attacking Chatham 23-24 Jun 41 and the claim for the 255 Sqn He 111 was east of Flamborough Head 24-25 Jun 41 (24 hours difference and totally the wrong area and direction as the unit was based at Chartres). This is why Volksbund say 23 Jun as this was the last time they were seen. Likely that the KGr 100 He 111 was a victim of Braham of 29 Sqn

[Hans Nauta]

Hello Chris,

Thanks for your quick response. Your comments are quite locical, I'll adjust my data!

Best regards,
Hans Nauta

[anderbe]

Hans, if you have a look at this page http://ktsorens.tihlde.org/flyvrak/mortensjord.html

To me that plate does look like having 5682 stamped, and it was lost 1940-05-29.

Anders

[Hans Nauta]

Hello Anders,

Interesting contribution! I'm not quite sure if this type plate actually represents the real Wnr of the Heinkel, as different Wnr were also used for different parts of an aircraft. I've a typeplate of a recovered Bf 109 with Wnr which proved to be the Wnr of a part of the wing and not the aircraft itself...

However, I'm not an expert on this and I trust somebody on this Board may help us with this matter.

Of course there's also the possibility that the type plate is the correct one and I've an incorrect Wnr of the Heinkel of the initial question in my files!

Best regards,
Hans Nauta

[RT]

5682 hv been damaged above England on 6.sept. 40 flying for I.KG26...

Rémi

[flyvrak]

I've made a larger version of the typeplate here:
http://ktsorens.tihlde.org/flyvrak/mortensjord-05.jpg

Hopefully some of the experts on this forum will be able to say if this is the aircrafts werkenummer, or just a parts serial number.

regards Kjell

[edNorth]

Hello Kjell & others;

There was indeed W.Nr. 5682 made by ATG in late 1939 - Stkz. TU+AH - and was first flown at Leipzig-Mockau Airfield 21 January 1940. L may stand for Lizenz but usually this was not stamped in this way (so it may come from left wing - so may also be part plate!) Just out of curiosity I looked up the Gu.Qu.6Abt. losses 26.06.41 and 5682 is indeed the reported number on H-3 6N+KL stated lost (Chatan) 24.06.

Giving an opinium; The number in 6. Abt. could have an typing (writing) error included - I personally have found out that apx. 1 to 2% of the numbers in G.Qu.6.Abt. records have ´duplicates´ - but as RT pointed out, 6N+KL might have had part from the real 5682 fitted sometime in 1940 (or some parts becoming mixed up in final assembly). I´d stick with the one in Norway as 5682 unless proven otherwise. Maybe the planned survey of all sea-wrecks around Britain will turn up the remains of 6N+KL and reveal its true number.

cheers
ed

[steve sheridan]

A very interesting post so far.

Ed can you please tell more about the proposed survey of sea wrecks,
this is the first time i have heard of this.

Regards,
Steve.

[edNorth]

http://www.english-heritage.org.uk/s...onWebDoc.12376

but there was news item - check BBC website or Goooooogle search - deep somewhere - about this program a short while ago - using sidescan sonars up to dept of 75 meters - but then larger survey ships perhaps. Hope they have better trained personnel than on this website - this saying an ´He 111 or Ju 88´ crashing during BoB (when finding an typical German ammo drum full of small caliber ammo marked just ´Jul 40´ as plenty of them were lost later - f.e. during the Blitz 1941 and up to Steinbock, even ´45 - Gisela) but not looking better at the airframe wreckage brought up too ´stated full of part numbers´!!!!!!!! but none is shown or stated, save just one small pic .... but remember they are government and have strict rules. Imagine finding well ditched Ju 188, Do 217 etc. in deep waters and perhaps not allowed to bring it up because it could be full of bombs! Well - of course - these were Bombers!!!!!