Pre-War RAF Squadron colours

[alex crawford]

Hi,

I'm trying to find some accurate details on the Squadron colours used by the RAF during the 30's. i.e. 43 Squadron had black/white checks. I need information such as the dimensions of the markings and shade of paint used. Was the red and blue in 72 Squadrons markings the same shade as the roundel colours? Are there any accurate drawings of the upper wing markings?

Also what made the flight leaders aircraft stand out from the crowd? I know flight leaders had different colours such as red, blue and yellow but did they have any other distinguishing markings?

I haven't really studied markings of this period so any help would be appreciated.

Alex

[Smithy]

Hi Alex,

Colours used for individual squadron markings were very much based on what was in stores, hence the reds and blues used were the same as roundel colour. Just remember though that these two colours are completely different shades and brighter than the WWII roundel colours. I do have the FS equivalent numbers for the shades which I can dig out for you.

In terms of other colours, black and white is easy as these are just straight "pure" shades of these, other colours such as yellow tended to use the primary shades of these. In terms of dimensions of markings I have some material on that and also quite a few top and side profiles, especially of Fury and Bulldog squadrons, which I can send you Alex.

Flight commmanders' aircraft were distinguished from the rest of their flight by having the fin, tailplane, spinner and wheel covers painted in the flight's colours. Therefore a B Flight commander's aircraft would have theese areas painted in blue. Sometimes as well the turtleback was also painted in the flight's colours on the leader's mount. An example of this are the flight leaders' Hawker Furies of No. 1(F) Squadron.

HTH Alex but email me if you want more info.

Tim.

[Smithy]

Oops I should also add that up until around 1934-35 the squadron leader had the squadron marking (in 43's case black and white checks) painted on the fin and (usually) elevators. This eventually changed generally to the squadron leader pennant being painted on the fin.

Tim.

[alex crawford]

Hi Tim,

Thanks for the details.

I have profiles of a number of aircraft amrkings such as the Gladiator, Bulldog, Gauntlet and Fury. What I am looking for are the dimensions of the markings. Were 43 Sqn's black/silver and black/white checks 6" x 6" or 7" x 7"? What was the width of 72 Sqn's blue/red/blue fuselage stripes.

Was there a standard size for roundels? Or did it depend on the width of the wing? I know Gladiator upper wing roundels were 40" and that they were all the same style, Type A.

The FS numbers ofr the various colours would be great. I have 3 Sqn's Emerald Green as being quoted as FS14187.

Regards,

Alex

[Graham Boak]

Remember FS can only be an approximation to pre-war British colours, and perhaps sometimes not even that, if there is nothing near.

Re squadrons only using standard paints: my "favourite" 607 Sq RAuxAF had squadron colours of mauve and stone. Perhaps you could provide the FS, and preferably the RAF store code number, for those? (As a possible hint, I believe that the mauve was based on Durham University's Palatine Purple.) OK, I'm teasing, but I would really like to know.

[Smithy]

Originally Posted by Graham Boak

Remember FS can only be an approximation to pre-war British colours, and perhaps sometimes not even that, if there is nothing near.

Re squadrons only using standard paints: my "favourite" 607 Sq RAuxAF had squadron colours of mauve and stone. Perhaps you could provide the FS, and preferably the RAF store code number, for those? (As a possible hint, I believe that the mauve was based on Durham University's Palatine Purple.) OK, I'm teasing, but I would really like to know.

Graham, FS and BS equivalent numbers are available due to the fact that examples of the original roundel colours still exist.

In terms of "store" colours I think if you re-read what I posted I was referring to the use of red and blue colours from stores and not "mauves and stone".

I am only basing my information on Thetford's, Halley's work, and some information I have from various articles. If you have information which is different to mine I would love to see it so I may correct mine if it is incorrect...

[alex crawford]

Hi Guys,

During some research into the colours of the Royal New Zealand Air Force I was sent details for a number of 'paint codes'. These were produced in New Zealand but to British Specification.

They were;

Ident matt red; 33B/166 B.A.L.M. Spec S13-044. BS No 638 Post Office Red (match), FS 31136 (match).

Ident matt blue; 33B/164 B.A.L.M. Spec S13-046. BS No 108 Aircraft Blue (match). RAF's pre-war bright indent blue and standardised as Colour No8 in wartime use as Matt Blue (BS987C) and post-war as BS No108 Aircraft Blue.

Matt yellow: 33B/170 B.A.L.M. Spec S13-914; BS No 356 Golden Yellow, FS 33538.

B.A.L.M was the manufacturer of the paint in New Zealand.

One that may internest a number of people if the Foliage Green that was aplied to RAAF and RNZAF aircraft.

Foliage Green Camouflage; 33B/183 S13-983. BS No 226 Mid Brunswick Green (match), FS 3(2)4062 (match).

Alex

[Smithy]

Hi Alex,

Roundel colour matches I have are:

Blue FS 25056

Red FS 31136 (the same as your source above)

In terms of 43 Squadron checks I don't have actual dimensions but both 6'' x 6'' and 7'' x 7'' sound too small. I would've thought they would be around the 9'' - 11'' mark. You could email Guy Black at HAC. They are restoring an original Fury and in the markings of 43 so he may be savvy to some information regarding marking dimensions.

Cheers,

Tim.

[alex crawford]

Hi Tim,

Thanks,

Alex

[alex crawford]

Hi,

Does anyone know the origins of the squadron markings? Why did the squadrons adopt the markings they used?

Alex