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  #1  
Old 9th July 2006, 05:17
kaki3152 kaki3152 is offline
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Siegfried Freytag's 1./JG-77- Shot down over Malta

In Christpher Shore's "Spitfire Over Malta", Siegfried Freytag is said to have crashed into the Med on July 27,1942, He was rescued by German ASR (Do-24),while the British rescue vessel H-128 was approaching him.

He is quoted as saying:"I was pulled out of the water close to Valleta harbour just as the British rescue launches were coming up"

He was Kapitan of 1,/JG-77 Staffel at this time.

In the new Jadgfliegerverbande edition "/II-Einsatz in Mittelmeerraum
November 1941 bis Dezember 1942". No mention is made of any 1./JG-77 casualty on July 27 (There is a 3./JG-77 casualty, Notlandung at Comiso)
but in the text there is a passage remarking that a pilot of 1. Staffel had good luck on July 25th and was rescued by Seenotdienst after a parachute landing .

Was this Oblt. Freytag? This is not included in the I/JG-77 Verluste list that follows the text (p. 302) in Prien's book. There is a mention of
Ofw Kurt Goerbring (2./JG-77) making a "Notwasserung vor Sizilien"
on July 25th in the Verluste column. Is this the casualty refered to in the text and the 1. Staffel reference merely a misprint?
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Old 9th July 2006, 09:44
Jochen Prien Jochen Prien is offline
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Re: Siegfried Freytag's 1./JG-77- Shot down over Malta

This is a simple typo from my part - the pilot whose a/c crashed into the sea on July 25th, 1942 was Obfw. Kurt Görbing of 2./JG 77 as is evidenced by the diary of Uffz. Horst Schlick. So please correct the text on page 273 to a pilot of 2nd Staffel, who ... Please note also that the pilot did not come down by parachute but had to ditch his a/c and - according to Schlick's diary - was able to swim to the shore as was already shown in JG 77 Vol. 3, page 1249.

These - typing - errors are seemingly inevitable even though three and some times four different people are proof reading on our side. I apologize for this but cannot promise that it won't happen again. I'm always grateful for any correction or hint at discrepancies that have been overseen on our side.

Regards

Jochen Prien
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Old 9th July 2006, 19:16
kaki3152 kaki3152 is offline
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Re: Siegfried Freytag's 1./JG-77- Shot down over Malta

Dr. Prien,



Thank you for your clarification.

Do you have any idea if Siegfried Freytag was shot down in his flightsagainst Malta? Just looking at the Verluste listing does not isolate any incident that would correspond to his being shot down.
Is the quote in Shores's "Spitfire over Malta" in error?

Thanks for any information, I've always been interested in Siegfried Freytag's life, including his post war career in the French Foreign Legion.
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Old 9th July 2006, 19:23
Jochen Prien Jochen Prien is offline
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Re: Siegfried Freytag's 1./JG-77- Shot down over Malta

Unfortunately most of Siegfried Freytag's exploits during the summer and fall of 1942 are pretty much shrouded in mystery; what we know has been laid out in the unit history of JG 77, Vol.3 and - in short form - in the current JFV series.

I have no idea where Christopher shores got the information of Siegfried Freytag's ditching in the Mediterrannean in July 1942; this of course doesn't mean that it couldn't have happened but I have no source at all supporting this story.

Regards

Jochen Prien
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Old 11th July 2006, 20:49
Stig Jarlevik Stig Jarlevik is online now
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Re: Siegfried Freytag's 1./JG-77- Shot down over Malta

Dear Jochen

From the Intro and Acknowledgement section of the book Malta the Spitfire years, it is obvious that most of the German data has come from the researches of Winfried Bock and also Hans Ring who "provided the vast majority of the Luftwaffe material in the book".

Obviously the three authors, Shores, Cull and Malizia has relied on their information and don't quote any first hand German sources.

What is interesting is that we do have a quote from Freytag's lipps so to speak, and I suppose there is a great possibillity that one of the German gentlemen had actually interviewed Freytag, unless of course the latter has written some kind of statement himself postwar, which I don't know....

Cheers
Stig
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Old 11th July 2006, 21:45
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Andreas Brekken Andreas Brekken is offline
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Re: Siegfried Freytag's 1./JG-77- Shot down over Malta

Hi, guys.

Do not want to 'add to the confusion', but I do believe we have to go through what we have for these dates:

I./J.G.77 as Gruppe lost a total of

25.7. 2 aircraft

http://www.ahs.no/ref_db/lw_loss_pub...?lossid=107779

http://www.ahs.no/ref_db/lw_loss_pub...?lossid=107780

and

27.7. 1 aircraft

http://www.ahs.no/ref_db/lw_loss_pub...?lossid=107781

The pilot of the last aircraft is not identified, and could have been Freytag, flying a 3. Staffel aircraft, or it could have been someone else (and unless we find something further we will probably never know for sure....).

It is of course also possible that the loss referred to as being Freytag happened another date (month...) entirely, but the loss record fit quite nicely with the story attributed to Freytag. It does seem however that the above mentioned references should be annoted by the owners until revised. Thanks for the heads up on the typo mr. Prien, and we of course understand that it is virtually impossible not to make a few in all those pages!

Regards,
Andreas
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Old 11th July 2006, 23:45
Jochen Prien Jochen Prien is offline
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Re: Siegfried Freytag's 1./JG-77- Shot down over Malta

Dear Andreas,

please forgive me if I have to object to your assumption that the loss return of July 27th, 1942, may have referred to the incident involving Siegfried Freytag that we are discussing here. As we can see from both the GQM loss report and your loss entry the a/c of 3./JG 77 that was damaged in a dog fight with Spitfires over La Valetta on July 27th made it back to Comiso where it crashed in an emergency landing. So - no parachuting into the Mediterrennean close to La Valetta and no being resued by a German SAR plane.

The matter of the fact is that so far we have no clue as to when and where this incident might have taken place. And again - I'm not saying that it couldn't have happened, it's just that we do not have any loss return that would match.

Regards

Jochen
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Old 12th July 2006, 00:19
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Re: Siegfried Freytag's 1./JG-77- Shot down over Malta

Hi, Jochen.

Ok, but why is the location given as "bei La Valetta" and not "Comiso"? If the aircraft made it back, shouldn't the record read:

Notlandung infolge Jägerbeschuss / Comiso ?

If there are no other source for this I for one would regard this emergency landing as happening close to Malta, and not on the airfield at Comiso, and we can agree to disagree

Regards,
Andreas
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Old 12th July 2006, 00:41
Jochen Prien Jochen Prien is offline
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Re: Siegfried Freytag's 1./JG-77- Shot down over Malta

Dear Andreas,

the dog fight took place over La Valetta, but the crash landing at Comiso on Sicily. There is no mentioning in the loss report of the a/c going down into the sea off La Valetta nor of the pilot taking to his parachute. And above all, the a/c in question belonged to 3./JG 77, not 1./JG 77.

So we may agree to disagree, but there is not too much to substantiate your claim.

Cheers

Jochen Prien
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Old 12th July 2006, 06:26
kaki3152 kaki3152 is offline
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Re: Siegfried Freytag's 1./JG-77- Shot down over Malta

Dr. Prien,

Thanks for your concise and noteworthy observation on the subject.

Unfortunately, it seems Siegfried Freytag's ditching off Malta will rank along with other Luftwaffe Jadgflieger mythos such as Heinz Baer's shooting down a Mosquito in April 1945, Walther Dahl's shooting down three P-47s attacking an airfield in March 1945, and Erich Hartmann's multiple P-51 victories over Ploesti. They may be true but no evidence has ever surfaced.

Carlos
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