10 PRS loss 20/10/44

[dahiot daniel]

Hello,


I research information the place of the loss 20/10/44, of the P38J-20-LO #44-23276, 10 PRS 31 st. MACR : 10522.
Name of its pilot.

Thank you

Dan

[Horst Weber]

Hi Daniel !

The pilot's name is 1st Lt. Harry J. Butler, jr., AAF/sn 0-750531. He was obviously killed in the action and identified at US-Military Cemetary St. Avold, France. Lateron, his human remains were tranferred to a place in Minnesota (US) for final rest.

It is hard to determine, when this accident occured. There are no German Luftgaukommando records, tracing to this event. All LIGHTNING losses, filed by J- or KU-reports are in the morning or at noon. The only LIGHTNING loss that day in the afternoon was at about 15:02 hrs near Dunkirk, filed as J 2387. You may check this file and then a solution would be possible. Or feel free to order Lt. Butler's IDPF file. This would give you the certainity, where Butler was initially buried and where you should look for his aircraft..

[dahiot daniel]

Thank you for the reply.

Then evident good again to to be sure to have found the good loss.

I research the loss of a P38 that is crushed it to the takeoff of the airfield of Rennes Saint Jacques. The pilot is dead burnt in its aircraft.
Of known date.

The alone P38 having stayed to Rennes are these 10 PRS.
And a loss seemed to bring this, the former : P38J-20-LO #44-23276.
If you know losses of 10th PRS, can be had you the reply.

Thank you
Dan

[Horst Weber]

Daniel !

If this incident hapened on October 20th, 1944 in the area of Rennes, I am very sure, that a buriqal file of Lt. Butler is existing in the area. It may have been compiled by the french parish, he was initially buried, or he was buried at the numerous French U.S. Military Cemetaries in the liberated U.S. Zone.
At my knowledge, St. Avold U.S. Military Cemetary, Hamm (Luxembourg), Foy (Belgium) and Margraten (Netherlands) Cemetaries were established past December 25th, 1944 and no deceased prior this date found his rest at those Cemetaries.
1st. Lt. Harvey J. Butler was initially (for the Americans a regulary U.S. War Cemetary) buried in St. Avold, France, which indicates, that his incident may have happend probably in German occupied territory on Oct. 20th, 1944.

All the best,

Horst Weber

[dahiot daniel]

Hi,


Me here is fixed on the Lt. Butler, indeed if that here was dead in our region of Rennes, we were in zone liberated since 4 August 44.
The Lt. Butler would have been buried the cemetery of Brittany to Saint James.
St. Avold U.S. Military Cemetary was created after December 25th, 1944, that solves the destiny of the Lt. Butler.

Now it remains to find the loss corresponding for Rennes.

Thank you
dan

[Laurent Rizzotti]

MACR will be issued only when crew are MIA (usually over enemy territory or over sea, sometimes in rough terrain).

In your case, the crew fate (KIA) was obvious so there was no MACR but an accident report.

Check this page http://www.aviationarchaeology.com/s...y/Aug1944O.htm
to see a list of the accidents outside USA. This page is for August 1944, there is one for each month of the war.

THe only deadly accident I found on these list at Rennes was on 28 August 1944

Date: 440828
Aircraft type: UC-64A
Aircraft number: 43-35396
Unit: Hq 100FW
Base: A27 (Rennes)
Airforce: 9th
Fate: KCRT
Pilot: Patterson, Robert A
Country: FRA
Place: Rennes/A-27

KCRT means Killed, CRashed on Take off

An UC-64A is a second-line aircraft. It has only one engine and is very different from a P-38.

You may check the accident lists of 1945 too.

[RossGmann]

Re your inquiry on 25 February 2005

Claims for P-38 On 20 October 1944 by the Luftwaffe
No Aircraft details other than make and location shown

www.luftwaffe.cz/lemkes.html Entry 51
www.luftwaffe.cz/matoni.html

Kind regards

Ross