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  #1  
Old 7th July 2009, 17:32
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F/Sgt.M.Smith 248 Squadron

Hi,

Just reading "What A Bloody Arrival" by Martin Smith, he flew with 248 Sqd and claimed 3 victories. He does not appear in "Those Other Eagles" but his DFM citation does confirm his claims. The first 2 were HE.111's claimed while 248 had a detachment at Portreath between September and December 1941- unfortunately Smith does not give the dates.His 3rd was a Bv.138 ( of 2/Ku.Fl.Gr.406, K6+DK W.Nr310090 ) on 08 June 1942 over the N.Sea. Can anyone provide details of his first 2 claims - Dates etc.Luftwaffe units etc ? He also mentions a Sgt.Alan Welsh who claimed 2 victories during this period is there any info on this pilot?

I have the following claims for 248 during 1940 p to mid 1942:-

18.05.40 F/Lt.A.W.Pennington-Leigh Bf.110

P/O.E.H.McHardy Bf.110
(sadly these were both French aircraft shot down in error)

28.09.40 P/O.C.C.Bennett Do.18 ( of 2/406)

03.11.40 P/O.E.H.McHardy He.111 Dam

09.05.41 Sgt Cripps Ju.88A-5 (VA+CP,II?KG.1 ,
W.Nr 2231)


30.10.41 Sgt.South & Sgt.Lee He.111 Prob

27.12.41 S/Ldr. D.L.Cartridge He.111

F/Lt.B.F.Rose He.111

22.02.42 P/O Graham He.111 Dam

02.04.42 F/Lt.B.F.Rose He.115

F/Sgt J.A,A,L.Boussa He.115, He.115 Dam

Sgt.G.P.Windsor He.111

08.06.42 F/Sgt.M.Smith Bv.138 (2/406 K6+DK 310090)

09.06.42 S/Ldr.R.E.Morewood Bv.138 (2/406 K6+?? 311109)
actually 30% Dam


I do have 3 more pages of 248 claims after this period but I will leave it there for now.

Can anyone add to or correct this listing.

Cheers

Bruce Lander
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Old 12th July 2009, 22:21
phasselgren phasselgren is offline
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Re: F/Sgt.M.Smith 248 Squadron

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Lander View Post
Hi,

Just reading "What A Bloody Arrival" by Martin Smith, he flew with 248 Sqd and claimed 3 victories. He does not appear in "Those Other Eagles" but his DFM citation does confirm his claims. The first 2 were HE.111's claimed while 248 had a detachment at Portreath between September and December 1941- unfortunately Smith does not give the dates.His 3rd was a Bv.138 ( of 2/Ku.Fl.Gr.406, K6+DK W.Nr310090 ) on 08 June 1942 over the N.Sea. Can anyone provide details of his first 2 claims - Dates etc.Luftwaffe units etc ? He also mentions a Sgt.Alan Welsh who claimed 2 victories during this period is there any info on this pilot?

I have the following claims for 248 during 1940 p to mid 1942:-

18.05.40 F/Lt.A.W.Pennington-Leigh Bf.110

P/O.E.H.McHardy Bf.110
(sadly these were both French aircraft shot down in error)
According to the A Clasp For the Few by Kennth G. Wynn McHardy and another pilot shot down a He 111 on the same sortie but this is not mentioned in any other book (see also the answers I received to my post “235 Sqn in action over Holland and Belgium May 1940” on this Forum)

28.09.40 P/O.C.C.Bennett Do.18 ( of 2/406)

03.11.40 P/O.E.H.McHardy He.111 Dam
According to Battle of Britain, the Forgotten Months by John Foreman this was shared with PO Garrad and PO Atkinson “attack and badly damage a He111H-3 of I/KG26” BUT according to Those Other Eagles by Christopher Shores the He 111 was probably destroyed and only McHardy made the claim.

09.05.41 Sgt Cripps Ju.88A-5 (VA+CP,II?KG.1 ,
W.Nr 2231)

30.10.41 Sgt.South & Sgt.Lee He.111 Prob

27.12.41 S/Ldr. D.L.Cartridge He.111

F/Lt.B.F.Rose He.111

22.02.42 P/O Graham He.111 Dam

02.04.42 F/Lt.B.F.Rose He.115

F/Sgt J.A,A,L.Boussa He.115, He.115 Dam

Sgt.G.P.Windsor He.111

08.06.42 F/Sgt.M.Smith Bv.138 (2/406 K6+DK 310090)

09.06.42 S/Ldr.R.E.Morewood Bv.138 (2/406 K6+?? 311109)
actually 30% Dam

I do have 3 more pages of 248 claims after this period but I will leave it there for now.

Can anyone add to or correct this listing.

Cheers

Bruce Lander
Hi Bruce,

A later answer because i have been away on holiday.

Some additions and comments (included above) with information from some books but unfortunately little based on first hand sources like ORBs or Combat reports.

13.05.40 P/O.E.H.McHardy (from New Zealand) E/A Dam shared with 3 other pilots (see Those Other Eagles and my post “235 Sqn in action over Holland and Belgium May 1940” on this Forum)

02.10.40 A.F. Fowler (from New Zealand) Do 215 Dam, Fowler was wounded and received a DFC for this action (see A Clasp For the Few by Kennth G. Wynn this is also mentioned in the Official History of New Zealanders in the RAF).

20.10.40 P/O G. M. Baird (from New Zealand) Do 215 was himself shot down and becam POW together with his crew (see A Clasp For the Few). I don´t know if this claim was officially recognized.

I will check 1941 and -42 tomorrow.

Cheers
Peter Hasselgren
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Old 12th July 2009, 23:30
Frank Olynyk Frank Olynyk is offline
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Re: F/Sgt.M.Smith 248 Squadron

Oct 30, 1941 at 0900, He-111 dam, 60 m SW of Scillies, by Sgt Lee+Sgt Taylor (no first names) in T4776 "F", and Sgt Martin Smith+Sgt Richard Hutchison in T4721 "Q".

Nov 6, 1941 at 0944, He-111 prob, SW of Scillies, by Sgts Lee+Taylor in T4711 "W", and Sgts Smith+Hutchison in T4786 "G".

June 8, 1942 at 2130, Ha-140 dest, NE of Shetlands LZZG 4443, by Sgt Martin Smith+unstated obs in T5101 "K".

June 17, 1942 at 0546, He-111 dam, North Sea, LZCM 4630, by Sgt A Welch+FSgt P H Heath in T4781 "H".

These are all taken from the ORB.

Frank.
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  #4  
Old 13th July 2009, 20:24
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Re: F/Sgt.M.Smith 248 Squadron

Hi,

thanks guys for your responses, obviously I had the 30/10/41 claim attributed to Sgt.South when it should have been Smith.
These Coastal fighter units have been sadly neglected so far and most claimed more kills than several regular fighter Squadrons.
I would be most interested in any more information on these units and happy to share my own research (incomplete as it is)

Cheers

Bruce Lander
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Old 14th July 2009, 21:55
phasselgren phasselgren is offline
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Re: F/Sgt.M.Smith 248 Squadron

Hi Bruce,
Just checked the Jan 41 to June 42-period and I have nothing to add to the claim-lists.
I agree these units have been neglected. My interest is focused on claims by New Zealanders (both by pilots and air gunners) but because so little has been written about air to air claims by these units I started to dig a little myself. Unfortunately I have not so much information but you are welcome to contact me off the board.
Cheers
Peter
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Old 15th July 2009, 00:50
Martin Gleeson Martin Gleeson is offline
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Re: F/Sgt.M.Smith 248 Squadron

Bruce,

I believe Andy Bird plans to write such a book. See his post a page back for July 7th.

Regards,

Martin Glleson.
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Old 16th July 2009, 12:20
AUS_RAAF AUS_RAAF is offline
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Re: F/Sgt.M.Smith 248 Squadron

Hi Bruce,

As the username suggests my interest is in the Australian/RAAF side of things. Unfortunately I cannot add too much to the information already supplied. However, I would be very keen to learn what further details you have of the combat claims attributed to 248 Sqn and other coastal command units.

You are probably aware that P/O Bennett was an Australian in the RAF while F/Lt Rose & Sgt Windsor were both RAAF. So far my list of Australian aircrew serving with 248 Sqn during WWII is up to fourteen. Of this number, Rose, along with R.F.Hammond and P.J.O. Mueller were the more successful in terms of aerial claims (all their claims were during 1941/42). My nominal lists for 235 & 236 Sqns are surprisingly similar in terms of personnel 235 Sqn – 13 Aussies and 236 Sqn – 15.

Feel free to email me - dDOTharrATbigpondDOTcom (replace DOT & AT with the necessary symbols).

Regards, Drew H
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Old 17th July 2009, 16:32
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Re: F/Sgt.M.Smith 248 Squadron

There were quite a number of 248 Sqn combats inconclusive or otherwise. I have them on the following dates:

1 Mar 41, 6 Apr 41, 1 May 41, 6 May 41, 9 May 41, 10 may 41, 12 Jun 41, 30 Oct 41, 6 Nov 41, 11 Nov 41, 27 dec 41, 22 feb 42, 1 Apr 42, 2 Apr 42, 15 Apr 42, 8 Jun 42, 9 Jun 42, 17 Jun 42
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Old 17th July 2009, 19:06
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Bruce Lander Bruce Lander is offline
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Re: F/Sgt.M.Smith 248 Squadron

Hi Chris,

Thanks for the reply,as always you again demonstrate your Premier League status.

I just got your latest excellent book on SKG10 etc.first class!

I would be interested in claimants names for the dates you note if possible

Cheers

Bruce
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Old 19th July 2009, 15:41
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Re: F/Sgt.M.Smith 248 Squadron

Thanks Bruce for your generous comments!

I am afraid I do not have names but do have the following:

1 Mar 41: Ac A. Unknown off Wick inconclusive 1315 hrs
6 Apr 41: V. Ju 88 inconclusive off Stonehaven 1410 hrs
1 May 41: M. Ju 88 dam Mary Bank 1545 hrs
6 May 41: F & L. He 115 inconclusive Devil's Hole 2215 hrs
9 May 41: Ju 88 dest North Sea 2216 hrs
10 May 41: J. FW 200 dam Bill Bailey's Bank 1250 hrs
12 Jun 41: X. He 111 dam North Sea 1300 hrs
12 Jun 41: Y. Bf 110 inconclusive S.Norway 1232 hrs. Ac damaged
13 Jun 41: X. Ju 88 inconclusive NNE Devil's Hole 0840 hrs
30 Oct 41: He 111 dam SW Scillies 0900 hrs
6 Nov 41: He 111 prob sw Scillies 0944 hrs
11 Nov 41: Z. Bf 110 inconclusive W. Scillies 0907 hrs
27 Dec 41: F, C, J, N. He 111 prob Bf 109 dam Maloy is 1500 hrs
22 Feb 42: U. He 111 inconclusive Rattray Hd 0815 hrs
1 Apr 42: X. Ju 88 inconclusive Skaggerrak 1850 hrs
2 Apr 42: C. He 111 dest North Sea 1715 hrs
2 Apr 42: X. He 115 dest North Sea 1805 hsr
2 Apr 42: N. He 111 inconclusive North Sea 1200 hrs
2 Apr 42: N. He 111 inconclusive North Sea 1245 hrs. Ac damaged.
2 Apr 42: R & P. He 111 dam North Sea 1235 hrs
2 Apr 42: T. He 111 dam North Sea 1544 hrs
2 Apr 42: T. He 115 dam North Sea 1702 hrs
15 Apr 42: B & D. Ju 88 dam east coast of Scotland 0815 hrs
8 Jun 42: K. Ha 140 dest NE Shetlands 2130 hrs
9 Jun 42: F. Ha 138 dam NE Shetlands 0659 hrs.
17 Jun 42: H. He 11 dam North Sea. Ac damaged

Chris
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