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Old 2nd October 2013, 02:44
Fabrizio Fabrizio is offline
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Found a BF109 crash site, all infos welcome!

Hi from France!
I'm new here and came to share my last "treasure".

When I was I kid I heard several times old people from my village speaking about a german plane that crashed in the fields surrounding the village.
Unfortunately, well, old people at some point die, and when last year I bought a metal detector, couldn't speak no more with them.
This year I spoke with an old friend of my parents, whose wife had seen by her own eyes, when she was 6yo or so, the burning wreck, the wounded pilot sreaming etc.
He told me to go and speak with two 89 & 94yo sisters still living in the village, that went with his wife to the crash site minutes after hearing the big bang.
They remebered it, even if they told me it was a british plane, but were able to exactly locate it.
Very uncertain informations, but, I wouldn't keep the doubt in mind so I picked up my bip-bip-machine and walked to the site.

And then, at the exact same spot they indicated, after no more than seconds of search..BIP BIP! Aluminium everywhere! Rivets! Tubing!
First revealing part was a brocken aluminium oil-line connector, stamped ARGUS and some numbers.
Asked google about it and found that ARGUS was not less than the manufacture assembling….V1 flying bomb pulse jet engine! And misc parts for the luftwaffe too, only war time as the plat was closed in 1945. Just hours after hearing the story from the sisters I already had the crash site plus the proof that it was a german WW2 era "thing" !
Next day, super excited, I went back to the site. Found again aluminium fragments, steel bolts, and two much bigger parts made of cast aluminium, with steel bolts still attached, and a suuuper nice engine head fragment with exhaust ports, valve, spring and retainers on it !
Google again, and within minutes I identified the bits as bits of a Daimler-Benz DB600 series engine (found out later that it should be precisely a DB605).

And, what I was looking for, mainly mounted on Bf 109 fighters. Couldn't believe it!

Since then, I've searched the spot almost every day, finding every day more stuff.

It's now almost sure that this is -well, was- a Messerschmitt Bf 109 G "Gustav" or later, since I found dozens of 13mm and 20mm MG shells and projectiles, even a steel belt links from, I believe, a mg151/20
I found the big bolts attaching the wings to the fuse, an intake valve, a crankshaft counterweight, a metal ring from the pilots seatbelt, melted aluminium and so on…already 2 small wooden crates full!


I'm now looking for more informations, about the fragments, the exact model of 109 they could come from, and, of course, anything that could help me ID the plane, pilot, date and story of the crash, etc…any help strongly welcome!

Last edited by Fabrizio; 2nd October 2013 at 15:06.
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Old 2nd October 2013, 13:03
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AbbevilleBoy AbbevilleBoy is offline
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Re: Found a BF109 crash site, all infos welcome!

Hello, I guess you want to stay quiet about the location of the crash, but which department do you find yourself? As to find the date, driver etc ... Difficult. I'm in the Somme. If you want to contact me in private message ... Cordially.
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Old 2nd October 2013, 15:04
Fabrizio Fabrizio is offline
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Re: Found a BF109 crash site, all infos welcome!

Hi,

Location is between villages of Occonville and Le-gué-de-Longroi, half way between Chartres and Rambouillet, in th middle of the fields. Crash site is almost invisible, so I don't bother giving it quite closely, and I hope it will help identifying it!

Anyone got records for a crash here?
As I said, It's 100% a german plane, and 99% sure a 109 G-6.
I know the plane suffered a violent fire (lots of melted aluminium found), and crash or belly landing must have been violent too, as I found the first counterweight of the crankshaft broken apart, as many bits of the front of the engine, including valves, and bits of head. From what the "olds" told me, the pilot survived the crash. Well, they also told me that it was a british plane, so...
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Old 2nd October 2013, 15:21
Fabrizio Fabrizio is offline
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Re: Found a BF109 crash site, all infos welcome!

I forgot to say that I do have a contact to check the village's wartime archives, and I will be doing it soon, maybe I'll find some paperwork about the crash.
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Old 2nd October 2013, 18:31
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ouidjat ouidjat is offline
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Re: Found a BF109 crash site, all infos welcome!

Fabrizio,

Maybe you need a backhoe to dig it!!! I'm kidding ...

More seriously we have nothing to find something serious.
- Place is roughly enough but no date.
- No plate yet?

However if we start with units in the vicinity (1944; since "they" were far from here in 1945: Chartres and Rambouillet):
Stab JG 26 is a possible candidate ...
As well are JG 105 and III./JG 3.

I have four losses in Chartres area:
9./JG 26 and 10./JG 26, though not Stab JG 26 but why not, all four between 17/07 and 9/08/1944, all Bf 109G-6s. I don't have Bruch % ...

But location isn't NE of Chartres, though means nothing if errors in reports.

I've not enough losses to complete this research. Others are more able than I am ... Good luck.

Franck.
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Old 2nd October 2013, 18:49
gilles collaveri gilles collaveri is offline
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Re: Found a BF109 crash site, all infos welcome!

Fabrizio,

the date is the key: if you can find the date, I am sure you will have the answer. When you have the date, ask the question here on the forum;

Do you have all authorizations to do that ? You 'd better be careful, and do this very legally, even if it is a burden.
There is a growing business of selling such parts, and this is a shame. If I may advise: be careful not to be amalagated to that.

Good luck.

GC
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Old 2nd October 2013, 20:29
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ouidjat ouidjat is offline
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Re: Found a BF109 crash site, all infos welcome!

Fabrizio,

You have better to follow Gilles advice; he is -one of - the best in that field.
And date, indeed, if no ID plate ..
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Old 2nd October 2013, 22:31
Fabrizio Fabrizio is offline
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Re: Found a BF109 crash site, all infos welcome!

Hi, and thanks for the replies!

I know date is the key, but unfortunately I have none... The old woman I spoke to remembered that she was off school when the crash happened, so that was in summertime.

Regarding the authorizations, both the village's mayor and field owner are aware of my search, and of course do agree. I also reported my searchs to 2 "official" archeologist, I would not complain of course if a "legal" search replaced me.

And for the parts business, I have a really clear position: not a single rivet will be separated from the rest, and nothing will get out of the village. I store them at home, work a lot to clean them, but do definitely not consider them as my property, these are part of the history of the village, and are avaible for any exhibition. It happens that I also have a project of a small museum here, one if my friends owning dozens of ww2 uniforms and stuff.
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Old 2nd October 2013, 23:31
Fabrizio Fabrizio is offline
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Re: Found a BF109 crash site, all infos welcome!

I also have 3 very small fragments of aluminium with remains of paint.

Two are light blue, and one is very light olive drab.

Don't know if this can help, or if units had different color schemes.
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Old 3rd October 2013, 00:36
D.B. Andrus D.B. Andrus is offline
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Re: Found a BF109 crash site, all infos welcome!

Fabrizio

Could you post pictures of the pieces with paint?

Thanks,

D.B.
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