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Allied and Soviet Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the Air Forces of the Western Allies and the Soviet Union.

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  #1  
Old 3rd November 2015, 16:47
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Ivan Shamanov

Hello,

Ivan Shamanov is a less well-known Soviet ace credited with 8 kills.
Did he score them in the Douglas A-20 or rather in the Ilyushin Il-4 ?

Michael
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Old 4th November 2015, 21:27
kirche kirche is offline
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Re: Ivan Shamanov

Hi Michael,
Ivan Gavrilovic Shamanov (HSU) have not flown on the aircraft A-20G. Only DB-3F and IL-4. He had eight claims on the sinking ship. In memoirs, I have seen only one case about a downed enemy aircraft, but the documents about this unknown. If there were cases, then it is a merit gunner.
Regards,
Kirill
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Old 7th November 2015, 17:44
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Re: Ivan Shamanov

Hello Kirill,

are you sure ?
In "Soviet Lend-Lease Fighter Aces of WW2" by Mellinger, Shamanov is associated with the A-20.
Also the A-20 is depicted on the Shamanov website, which I cannot read, because I can't speak Russian :-(
http://airaces.narod.ru/all14/shamanov.htm

Have a nice weekend,

Michael
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Old 8th November 2015, 14:53
kirche kirche is offline
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Re: Ivan Shamanov

Hi Michael,
Ivan G. Shamanov from the spring of 1943, he served in the "Third Red Banner squadron" of 1 GMTAP. Was the commander of air flight, and then became commander of the squadron (at least until the end of 1944).
A "Third red banner squadron" used Il-4 to the end of the war. From the end of 1944, the Il-4 was used as a "night-miner".
In the summer of 1942, and 29.09.1942, 30.09.1942, 26.01.1943 and 13.04.1943 Ivan G. Shamanov successfully bombed the enemy airfields. Perhaps the planes were destroyed on the ground?
The only data about the downed plane is here: http://blokada.otrok.ru/biogr.php?l=25&n=1aig&t=1
But it's not the documents.

I think Ivan Shamanov until the end of the war was flown on the Il-4. He had a lot of experience in night flying (bombing, mining and torpedoing ships), but I don't think he's in the last months of the war (when he was an instructor pilot) went to be retrained on the new aircraft, which had a different tactic of use (tactical air flight "torpedo bomber" + "skip-bomber").
Part A-20G in 1 GMTAP converted into torpedo bombers (removed the nose guns (except one) and made the cabin of the Navigator). The other A-20G was used for skip-bombing.

Best regards,
Kirill

Last edited by kirche; 8th November 2015 at 15:25.
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Old 8th November 2015, 16:16
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Re: Ivan Shamanov

Hi Kirill,

very intresting.
Can you confirm Mellinger's statement (p84) that "a handful of pilots attained ace status in the A-20" ?

Have a nice evening,

Michael
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Old 19th July 2016, 12:52
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Re: Ivan Shamanov

...I'm still intrested in the planes (Il-4?) in which Shamanov scored or in any A-20 aces.

Cheers,

Michael
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Old 28th April 2017, 09:13
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Re: Ivan Shamanov

Good morning Kirill,

can we say that Ivan Shamanov most probably flew an Il-4 for his eight kills ?
(That would be the second-most kills in the type after Stepan Kretov's 10 or 12.)

Have a nice weekend,

Michael
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Old 28th April 2017, 14:04
kirche kirche is offline
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Re: Ivan Shamanov

Hi Michael,
I think that Ivan G. Shamanov flew to combat missions only on the types DB-3f and IL-4.
Only on this type of aircraft the pilot does not control the weapon.

In Russia, the pilots of the bombers did not become aces for the downed enemy aircraft. Only conditionally - as the commander of the crew.

С уважением,
Kirill
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Old 28th April 2017, 15:21
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Re: Ivan Shamanov

Hello Kirill,

thanks for your answer.
Mellinger writes in "Soviet Lend-Lease Fighter Aces of World War2" that "a handful of pilots attained ace status in the A-20" ?
Is this a hoax ?

Have a nice weekend,

Michael
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Old 29th April 2017, 18:00
kirche kirche is offline
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Re: Ivan Shamanov

Hi Michael,
In Russia, the status of the ace is rather an unofficial title for dashing pilots (daredevil pilot). The bomber pilots were also extraordinary people and could have high merits.
Such pilots on the A-20 was not "handful".
If we consider pilots whose crews shot down more than five aircraft, then there were not enough of them. But the bomber pilots as a rule had no task to shoot down other people's aircraft.
There were only three regiments of bombers that carried out the task of combating other aircraft.
Best regards,
Kirill
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