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Allied and Soviet Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the Air Forces of the Western Allies and the Soviet Union.

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  #21  
Old 3rd May 2017, 10:13
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knusel knusel is offline
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Re: Ivan Shamanov

Good morning Gabor,

have you ever come across a Soviet A-20 pilot credited with 5 or more aerial kills ?

Kind regards,

Michael
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  #22  
Old 3rd May 2017, 10:52
HGabor HGabor is offline
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Re: Ivan Shamanov

Krapiva had at least 5, but I have never been interested in such statistics, so I never researched it deeper.
Gabor
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  #23  
Old 3rd May 2017, 12:16
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Re: Ivan Shamanov

I do. I'm a passionate collector of top-aces-by-plane.
The ace with the most A-20 kills (6) might be the Canadian Gordon Raphael.
Mellinger writes that Ivan Shamanov had 8 kills but doesn't specify how many of these were in the A-20. In another post we agreed that Shamanov more likely flew the Il-4 for his successes. Now I wonder if any Soviet pilot could have surpassed Raphaels record (even despite we know that Soviet bomber pilots weren't actually credited with the kills of their crew).

Cheers,

Michael
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  #24  
Old 4th May 2017, 05:12
kirche kirche is offline
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Re: Ivan Shamanov

Only what is in the award documents:

The crew of Krapiva-Gorbunov-Kostyushin-Kutsai-Kirilenko (B-25C):
13.06.1943 - on B-25C (13 GwAP DD) fired 6 aircraft that came in for landing. 1 shot down Kostyushin, 1 damaged (ignited the engine - did not observe the drop, but it's as shot down) Kirilenko.

27 GwAP DD (on A-20G-3) - the crew of Krapiva-Kostyushin/???/Kulbatskiy-Kutsay:
18.06.1944 - blocking of the airfield Slonim - crept into the tail to Me-109 and knocked him down.
27/28.06.1944 - blocking of the airfield Baranovichi (tests of the cannon-machine-gun installation - AKAB) from the same approach two planes on the ground were destroyed.
14-15.07.1944 - Kostyushin died of wounds
24-25.07.1944 - blocking the airfield Petrovgrad (Yugoslavia).
On the return route attacked Me-109, which was shot down by the navigator (???).
16-17.09.1944 - blocking the airfield Budapesht. Shot down the plane Me-109 in the tail.
19.09.1944 - blocking the airfield Vats (35 km N Budapesht).
On the return route attacked Me-109, which was shot down by navigator major Kulbatskiy.

Although officially on the account of Krapiva only three planes shot down personally (in the documents found there are two of them).
Kutsai also shot Me-109 on 05/08/1941 - when he flew to the SB.
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  #25  
Old 4th May 2017, 10:57
HGabor HGabor is offline
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Re: Ivan Shamanov

Kirche,
In addition to this, Krapiva also had one kill on Sept. 19/20, 1944 as well from other TsAMO docs, the verified German loss is also known in details. They had another kill in Nov., 1944.
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  #26  
Old 5th May 2017, 16:14
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Re: Ivan Shamanov

Quote:
Originally Posted by HGabor View Post
Kirche,
In addition to this, Krapiva also had one kill on Sept. 19/20, 1944 as well from other TsAMO docs, the verified German loss is also known in details. They had another kill in Nov., 1944.
Hello Gabor,

the kill that you mentioned for Sept. 19/20, 1944: is it the same that Kirill indicated for 19.09.1944 ?

Have a nice weekend,

Michael
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  #27  
Old 5th May 2017, 18:53
HGabor HGabor is offline
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Re: Ivan Shamanov

Perhaps, but night missions are sometimes very confusing, like the 19th is 18/19, or 19/20? Cheers,
Gabor
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  #28  
Old 5th May 2017, 19:55
kirche kirche is offline
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Re: Ivan Shamanov

Michael & Gabor,
rather, that case from the award Kulbatsky is the one from September 19/20. I was not exactly accurate - the award does not say that the plane was shot down by the navigator. Kulbatsky was the first to notice the Me-109 and told the pilot, and the merit was attributed to the entire crew.
18.09.1944 - the awards include the blocking of the Miskolc airfield and an attack on the highway convoys. Six cars destroyed and delayed the movement.
Kirill
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  #29  
Old 8th May 2017, 14:37
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Re: Ivan Shamanov

Good afternoon Kirill & Gabor,

very interesting.
Can we provisionally agree on this Krapiva victory log (all shared with his crew)?:
  1. 13.06.1943 1 EA on B-25
  2. 18.06.1944 1 Me-109 on A-20
  3. 24-25.07.1944 1 Me-109 on A-20
  4. 16-17.09.1944 1 Me-109 on A-20
  5. 19.09.1944 1 Me-109 on A-20
  6. Nov 44 1 EA on A-20

Michael
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  #30  
Old 8th May 2017, 15:08
HGabor HGabor is offline
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Re: Ivan Shamanov

Yeah, but I am a bit sceptical about the EA types. Eg. on 19.09.1944 Krapiva's crew claimed a Bf 109 which was in fact an Me 110 (for 100%), using probably landing lights, being lost in dogfight in the same area - at night. Misidentification of enemy AC was very common even among the soviet daylight fighters, since eg. Hungarian marked Bf 109s were regularly reported as Fw 190s by the soviets, not to mention their claims at night... Also, the Bf 109s weren't common at night either...

Gabor
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