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  #41  
Old 11th November 2012, 00:08
Laurent Rizzotti Laurent Rizzotti is offline
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Re: JG 52 victories

Well what we have for this case is in my own opinion big discrepencies between Soviet and German documents, with the main day of German claims against U-2 being the 7 and 9 whit only one Soviet loss on this day.

On the other hand, the German claims are coming from Tony Wood's files, and the more recent work of Prien and co had shown that this is often reliable, but not always, for 1941 and 1942, while Soviet documents have also date errors.
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  #42  
Old 11th November 2012, 05:17
Nick Hector Nick Hector is offline
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Re: JG 52 victories

In spite of the time differences, is there any chance that Schall did indeed shoot down the losses mentioned for 6.11.43?
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  #43  
Old 14th November 2012, 22:50
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Re: JG 52 victories

29Sep43 08:55 Lt. Erich Hartmann 9./JG 52 claimed his 112th(?) victory an Airacobra at 58 682 at 4000 m.

According to the works of Christer Bergstroem this was the 104 GIAP Airacobra flown by Mayor Vladimir Grigor'evich Semenishin (KIA) who had 15 victories and 11 shared.
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  #44  
Old 11th December 2012, 01:34
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Re: JG 52 victories

I was reading through the episode on 09May43 on WWW.allaces.ru. It lists that Serzh. Ilya Ivanovich Elgin of the 961 IAP rammed a Bf 109 in a dogfight after ramming it both aircraft exploded. Both III/JG 3 and I/JG 52 were operating in the area of Rostov-on-Don where this happen. JG 3 had no losses and no claims for an I-16. So did I/JG 52 have a loss?

Maj. Helmut Bennemann of Stab I/JG 52 claimed two I-16 at 10:03 and 10:06 at 98 840 and 98 730.

Also lost on I-16 in a air battle from the 961 IAP were:
Lt. Anatoliy Vasil'evich Kirichkov (KIA)
St. Serzh. Vladimir Petrovich Bakhtin (KIA)
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  #45  
Old 11th December 2012, 14:16
Leo Etgen Leo Etgen is offline
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JG 52 victories

Hello Nokose

I was able to find this according to Fast:

9 May 1943: Feldwebel Tarnahy of I./JG 52 killed when his Bf 109 F-4 (W.Nr. 7007) collided in the air with another German fighter, Pl.Qu. 61364, 100%
9 May 1943: Fähnrich Gynis of I./JG 52 killed when his Bf 109 F-4 (W.Nr. 12 721) collided in the air with another German fighter, Pl.Qu. 61364, 100%

Perhaps this was the incident described in the Russian account? I hope this helps.

Horrido!

Leo
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  #46  
Old 11th December 2012, 22:20
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Re: JG 52 victories

Thanks Leo but it's the wrong Pl.Qu. for where Elgin was KIA. I believe this ramming was probably Soviet propaganda but will not know for sure until JFV12/II comes out in Feb2013. So if someone else has a claim for a I-16 and there is no other loss or damaged planes, we will know then. I've read quite a few rams that the aircraft blew up before the ram and the German aircraft was okay.
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  #47  
Old 14th December 2012, 13:38
Laurent Rizzotti Laurent Rizzotti is offline
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Re: JG 52 victories

On 14 December 1942 Uffz. Friedrich Heeg of 7./JG 52 was killed when his Bf 109G-2 13881 VC+LC collided (or was rammed) with a I-153 over Soldatskaya, 220 km SE of Armavir, and crashed. According to Heeg’s fellow pilot, Heeg pursued a Soviet fighter which climbed toward the sun, and, apparently blinded by the sun, collided with his opponent. A victory was posthumeously awarded a Heeg for an I-153 at 0543 hrs on Pl.Qu. 44Ost/34292. It was his 25th victory, the first having been claimed on 6 August 1942. Heeg actually was the only air combat loss sustained by Stab/JG 52 and III./JG 52 in the Caucasus throughout December 1942. Meanwhile, these units submitted forty-six victories claims - including thirteen by Oberfeldwebel Alfred Grislawski.

He had collided with 84-A IAP’s Leytenant Viktor Nikolaevich Makutin. This 20-year old pilot rammed the Bf 109 head-on according to Soviet sources, and this "taran" attack brought his score to at least three Bf 109s shot down, all of them claimed while flying the Polikarpov I-153, but he was also killed.

84-A IAP was formed on 6 August 1942 with 16 I-153s and flew in North Caucasus. The unit was mainly used for ground attack missions. During the next 4.5 month they shot and strafed 122 German aircraft on the ground, destroyed 319 tanks, 1087 trucks, 24 guns, 222 Flaks and machine-gun Flaks. The most experienced pilots from this unit later served in the 16 GIAP.

Source:
http://www.lwag.org/forums/archive/i...hp/t-2284.html
http://surfcity.kund.dalnet.se/soviet_makutin.htm
http://allaces.ru/p/people.php?id=00000012914
"Die Jagdfliegerverbände der deutschen Luftwaffe 1934 bis 1945, Teil 9/II: Vom Sommerfeldzug 1942 bis zur Niderlage von Stalingrad 1.5.1942 bis 3.2.1943", by Jochen Prien & co. ISBN 978-3-923457-77-9
Luftwaffe claim lists by Tony Wood and Jim Perry (http://lesbutler.co.uk/claims/tonywood.htm)
http://www.collinsmaps.com/maps/Russ...955858.00.aspx

Edit: by the way, in Tony Wood's lists, there are 29 claims by Heeg between 6 Aug and 14 Dec 42. According to JFV 9/II, four of these were claimed by Fw Heinz Berg, and a probably bad microfilm makes Mr Wood believe they were claimed by Heeg.
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  #48  
Old 10th January 2013, 22:40
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Re: JG 52 victories

The "possible" claims for the 17 Feb 42. No locations and times on the Russian side (so maybe someone can verify this information).

The 90 ORAE lost a Pe-2 and a Su-2 piloted by Lt. Nikolay Dmitrievich Isaakov (MIA) and Starsh. Pavel Nikolaevich Romantsov (MIA). I don't know which pilot flew which plane or further information on their flight.

Making claims that day:
Stab III/JG 52 Oblt. Kurt Schade Pe-2 (14) 13:38
7./JG 52 Fw Edmund Rossmann Su-2 (38) 07:59

Maybe someone with information on this unit can verify this information.
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  #49  
Old 18th March 2013, 15:47
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Re: JG 52 victories

In J. Prien's JFV Teil 9/II page 491 it has the following 4./JG 52 Lt Walter Krupinski U-2 (36) 10:50 Pl.Qu. 54 653 and 4./JG 52 Uffz Alfred Krueger R-5 (13) 10:51 Pl.Qu. 44 653. In Tony wood's list it has both as 44 653 which puts the 54 653 as a misprint. On that date and location near Tulatovo station the UT-1 of the 216 IAD had Leytenant Mikhail Fomich Belokleytsev (Staff) shot down in an "air battle"with enemy aircraft. So this is possibly a free hunt by Krupinski-Krueger. It looks more like joint "kill".
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  #50  
Old 20th March 2013, 21:54
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Re: JG 52 victories

14 Aug 1942 Oblt. Hermann Graf 9./JG 52 (116) I-16 10:14 95112 (117) I-16 10:20 95113 this is possibly the aircraft that Graf shot down from the 5 VA. In Bergstroem's book on Hermann Graf all it has is the 5 VA.

I-16 36 IAP Lt. Viktor Nikolavich Zharkov (KIA) buried Pokhoronen at Kholm station.
I-16 36 IAP (AE co.) Kapt. Lev Nikolavich Terpugov (WIA)
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