JG54 combat on 22.03.43; 14.08.43 and 17.11.43

[keith A]

Can anyone tell me which VV-S Units were encountered by JG54 on these dates and times?

22.03.43 5 IL-2 shot down by 3./JG54 at 0800+
14.08.43 3 IL-2 shot down BY 3./JG54 at 1800+
17.11.43 2 IL-2 and 2 P40 shot down by 10./JG54 at 0900+

I am also looking at details on a combat on 15.02.44 where 4 IL-2 were claimed by 10./JG54 at 1310+

All these combats involved Robert Weiss of JG54.

regards

Keith

[Nokose]

Keith, here is what Il'ya Prokofev states in his book "Soviet Aviation in Combat Above Krasnyy Bor and Smerdynya February-March 1943" (Russian) 2008 for the 22 Mar 43, "In the documents of the Central Archive of the Defense Ministry and the Central Naval Archive the losses of bombers from the composition of the 13 VA and VVS KBF are not recorded". He does list that four Il-2 from the 943 ShAP suffered losses but does not give the times of the losses. So between I./JG 54 and 7./JG 26 there are more claims then there appears to be losses. Considering Walter Nowotny made two claims for Il-2 (Always be suspicious of his claims), Robert Weiss made 3 claims for Il-2, Kurt Christoph made two claims for Il-2, Rudolf Rademacher 1 Il-2 and 7./JG 26 Erich Jauer made one claim for Il-2 it is hard to determine who engaged them.

[keith A]

Thanks Nokose, Nowotny, Stotz, Lang and others seem to have been allowed a lot of claims without a serious attempt at confirmation. (I am also suspicious of two dogfights where Weiss makes multiple claims but no other pilots. 22 November is one of these). However it may be that the Weiss/Christoph claims at 0800+ fit the facts better than the later claims of Nowotny at around 1200, and Rademacher and Jauer which are several hours later at 1515? It would seem that Nowotny is very unlikely to under-claim

best regards

Keith

[Nick Hector]

If it helps, I have been able to determine that 3 GIAP, 61 IABR, VVS-KBF were definitely in action this date, but there seems to have been no losses mentioned. Their presence may account for Nowotny's LaGG-3 claim at 1150, Loos's claim for one around the same time and possibly even Anton Doebele's claim for a Yak-1 earlier in the morning... ...whilst showing up even more overclaiming.