Mr. O'Connell

[Carleton]

Mr. O'Connell,
Please forgive me for cutting into the forum. I did not know how to contact you. My name is Carleton Jones. My wife's Grandfather was a ball turret gunner on a B-17 . He died a couple of years ago. In the last few years of his life he told me many war stories but unfortunately would not ever let me record any. One story was when he shot down a German jet. After he died my wife's family found the newspaper article where he and his tale turret gunner were credited with shooting down a ME 262. I have the original article in my possession , but it is torn out and does not have a date. I bought your book the other day and have been reading through it to see if I could learn anymore. My question is what plane was it? I was told not by him but by his family at a later date that it was the first Jet ever to be shot down in combat. I am not sure that is correct or an embellishment . If by chance you can help with this , I would appreciate it. The newspaper article states, two ME 262 were downed , one was destroyed, if that might help. I would be glad to scan the article and send to you.
Thank you,
Carleton A Jones
Newnan, GA

[Revi16]

It might help if you gave us his name, Bomb Group, Bomb Squadron, something to work with.

[Carleton]

I think he flew with a different bomb group at one time. I will try to get more information soon but will probably take a few days. Here is the article.

[Carleton]

[ATTACH][ATTACH]Attachment 10434[/ATTACH][/ATTACH]

I hope this works , new to me. I will get more information but it will take a couple of days

[Carleton]

K is for Kenneth or Ken

[David E. Brown]

Hello Carleton,

The date of this action would appear to be 19 April, 1945. The newspaper article states that the target of the 490 BG was the railway marshalling yards at Aussig, Germany (now Usti nad Labem, Czeck Republic), and it was the last German installation to be bombed by the Eighth Air Force. This matches very well with information on the 8th Air Force Historical Society website (http://www.8thafhs.org/combat1945.htm):


THURSDAY, 19 APRIL 1945
STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Eighth Air Force): 2 missions are flown. Mission 961: 605 B-17s and 584 P-51s are dispatched to make visual attacks on rail targets in SE Germany and NW Czechoslovakia; they claim 18-1-5 Luftwaffe aircraft; 5 B-17s and 2 P-51s are lost:

1. 284 B-17s are sent to hit the marshalling yards at Elsterwerda (135) and Falkenberg (143); 27 are damaged. Escorting are 191 of 204 P-51s; they claim 5-0-0 aircraft; 1 P-51 is lost (pilot MIA).

2. 321 B-17s are dispatched to hit the railroad industry and rail bridge at Pirna (115) and Karlsbad (87) and the marshalling yard at Aussig (109); they claim 6-1-2 aircraft; 5 B-17s are lost and 13 damaged; 46 airmen are MIA. The escort is 197 of 206 P-51s; they claim 7-0-3 aircraft.


Regarding the Luftwaffe, Dan’s published information (“Messerschmitt Me 262 – The Production Log”) shows little for that date though he has compiled more information since then. Other published sources indicate that Me 262s of JG 7 and KG (J) 6 and 54 were operational that day from Praha-Ruzyne, so the Me 262 shot down was from one of these units. Research on combat on this date by my colleagues Tomas Poruba, Ales Janda and Jan Vladar was published in our book “Messerschmitt Me 262s of KG & KG(J) Units” (2012). While there were a number of claims from B-17 gunners and P-51 pilots, the Me 262s initially attacked the bombers before their escort arrived, and there were losses on both sides. There are a few possible matches of gunner claims and jet losses that I copy below from our book:


The first incident was described in detail in the town chronicle of Krchleby:
“Shortly after noon on 19th April 1945 a large number of American aircraft flew over from the Sedlčany direction, they were intercepted by Germans and a huge air battle ensued in which several German aircraft were shot down; one of them crashed in flames in Čermák’s meadow, made a crater several meters deep, got smashed and burnt down. Its pilot was found by Frant. Mařík of No.11 in the afternoon in Zeman’s field, smashed as his parachute did not open. He was Franz Nenynk from Lingenau.”

Research in pilot’s alleged birthplace confirmed the account, Franz Nenning of 9./KG(J) 6 was MIA from 19th April 1945 in Tábor area. His body was reportedly hauled by German officers in a car towards Neveklov. Remnants of jet engines, confirming aircraft’s model, were discovered on the crash-site, in a small valley of the Vlkonický Potok. (Information on Nenning’s aircraft’s serial and code numbers is unknown.)

Another duel was recorded by the town chronicle of Živohošť:
“…towards the end of the Protectorate a fierce duel took place over Živohošť between two American and two German aircraft, which ended up in the German planes being shot down. Both pilots bailed out and hovered like umbrellas above us. One of them landed near Morán, the other one someplace in Sedlčany District. The unpiloted German aircraft flew at frantic speed over Hněvšín and descended down over adjacent forests. It threatened Chotilsko, whose frightened citizens desperately sought for shelter, and eventually crashed with a huge noise and explosion on Mr. Mašek’s field near Chotilsko. Numerous people then gathered around to see aircraft’s wreck, whose swastika could be seen from far away. The wreck was until recently lying near a sand pit at Chotilsko…” (This aircraft was WNr.501209 likely from KG(J) 6, though the pilot’s identity remains unknown.)

Sedlčany hospital admitted an injured German pilot, allegedly from Kosova Hora. It may have been the pilot from Moráň or the other one, who was carried by wind to the right bank, according to the chronicle. The report from the gendarme station at Čím provides further details of the duel. Four German fighters flew over Čím at 12:10 and attacked a bomber formation approaching from the south. One of the fighters must have been hit by bombers’ defense, as it caught on fire. Its pilot bailed out and drifted southwards. A bomber was hit as well, released several bombs in emergency and people also saw three or four airmen on chutes. (Information on pilot and aircraft identities remains unknown.)


Hopefully other colleagues here might be able to add more to this contribution.

Cheers,

David

PS: I have forwarded your request onto Dan via his personal email, and if he has more information I am sure he will share it here.

D.

[Carleton]

From what he told me , they flew in a diamond shaped formation. His b-17 was one plane from the outside. The outside plane was hit very bad, still flying but went down and he did not see anyone get out. He said he thought the crew was killed before the crash. He told me he saw many planes go down but he knew that crew and it bothered him greatly. He told me that you never became friends with other crews because so many were lost so often. He told me they were suppose to be flying in that spot but for some reason that I do not remember ( he did tell me) , they did not. I have a picture of his crew in front of there plane, but he flew with two crews during the war and I am not sure the picture was with the crew he flew with that day. I will try and post it tomorrow .
Thank you for the information. I greatly appreciate it.
Carleton