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  #1  
Old 27th August 2007, 00:35
Eduardo Eduardo is offline
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Question Ju 88 C-2 and C-4 diference?

Hi,

I would like to know the exact diference of these two types?
Some autors stated that the C-2 had "A-1" type wings with Jumo 211 B-1
engines and the C-4 had Jumo 211 G with "A-5" wings.Some others said
that it carries Jumo 211 F
In Michael Balss book about NJG Material losses it cleared identifies a C-2
subtype that had crash landed in Med area with a "A-5" type wing "Photo " with inset ailerons but were reported as a C-2 !!!

Eduardo.
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Old 27th August 2007, 02:16
ArtieBob ArtieBob is offline
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Re: Ju 88 C-2 and C-4 diference?

RAF Intelligence Summary Nr. 301, Sunrise 19.12.41 to Sunrise 29.12.41 included translation of Ju 88 subtype identification originating from a captured handbook. This listed the differences as follows:
C-1 No difference in airframe and powerplant between C-1 and A-1. Crew of 3, increased fixed armament, no bombing or diving equipment.
C-2 Similar to C-1 but with increased span.
C-3 Similar to C-2, but with BMW 801 engines.
C-4 Similar to C-2, but with auxillary reconnaissance equipment. (WAM-dwg. of Ju 88 C-4 indicates a 50/20 camera mounted aft of bomb bay and a 20/30 camera in the cockpit)
C-5 Similar to C-3 with no Bola, crew of two, two machine guns mounted in a pod under the rear bomb bay.

However, all Ju 88 fighters prior to C-6 apparently were converted after coming off the line. Thus in my mind, it is not certain that they were all converted to the same specifications. Like many other examples of Luftwaffe equipment, exceptions are the rule, very little was truly definitive.

Best Regards,

Artie Bob
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Old 27th August 2007, 12:56
edNorth edNorth is offline
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Re: Ju 88 C-2 and C-4 diference?

Hi Artie;

Do you agree then that C-4 / 0648 ´conversion history´ was: Original A-5 F in components and mounted/ff as such - cv C-4 - cv C-7 (in that order)?

cheers
ed
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  #4  
Old 27th August 2007, 15:53
Peter Achs Peter Achs is offline
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Re: Ju 88 C-2 and C-4 diference?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtieBob View Post
However, all Ju 88 fighters prior to C-6 apparently were converted after coming off the line. Thus in my mind, it is not certain that they were all converted to the same specifications.
That isn’t correct. At the start of the C-2/4 series all selected A-1/A-5 were transferred from Bernburg to Dessau for conversion into C-2/4, but from autumn 1940 all C-4 came off the assembly line at Bernburg as "pedigree" C-4, beginning with W-Nr. 0538.

Quote:
Originally Posted by edNorth View Post
Do you agree then that C-4 / 0648 ´conversion history´ was: Original A-5 F in components and mounted/ff as such - cv C-4 - cv C-7 (in that order)? ed
W-Nr. 0648
15.02.41 first flight at Bernburg as C-4.
17./18./20./22.02.41 some other flights (radio, autopilot, acceptance, transfer flight to Dessau)

17.08.41 first flight as C-7 (with BMW 801) at Dessau
some other flights
29.08.41 transfer to Oranienburg (VfH, Rowehl)

(sources: FB von Bergh, Steckhan, Reinhardt, Dautzenberg, Körner)

Regards
Peter
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Old 27th August 2007, 16:10
ArtieBob ArtieBob is offline
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Re: Ju 88 C-2 and C-4 diference?

Dear Ed and Peter,

My copy of the C-Amt begins in Jan 41 and indicates 9 C-4s and 1 C-5 BAL acceptances, Feb 2 C-4s (this could be in error, other data indicates 10), Mar 12 C-4s, Apr 3 C-4s and 1 C-7, May and Jun –none, Jul to Oct 3-C-subtype not given- scheduled, but not delivered (Could these be the first C-6s? Jul was the last month for A-5 acceptances from JFM). All C-types are shown on the C-AMT reports as Umbau. Peter, you give FB names, but not document identification for your sources. What is your document source identification that the late C-4s were built on the assembly line?

So, to answer Ed’s question, were the C-2s and C-4s originally coming off the line as A-5(F)s? This would seem most likely, with the deletion of bombing equipment and the camera installation.. The last month for A-5(F) acceptances was Mar, so that coincides pretty well with the end of C-4 conversions listed in the C-AMT (bomber A-5 acceptances continued until Aug). I have no solid data to confirm this exactly, as the W.Nr. for Aufklarer, Bombers and fighters were not separate until the 6 digit W.Nr. were introduced in 1942. I have several sources on this material and none seem to agree exactly, but they are pretty close, so the basic facts should not be in dispute. There was quite a gap between the last C-2/ C-4 production and the first C-6s. During this period NJG 2 put some A-4s in service, IMHO they looked pretty neat, all black with the NJG 2 staffel emblems and markings.

Best regards ,

Artie Bob
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  #6  
Old 27th August 2007, 19:59
Eduardo Eduardo is offline
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Re: Ju 88 C-2 and C-4 diference?

Thanks a lot for all.

Eduardo
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  #7  
Old 28th August 2007, 01:40
edNorth edNorth is offline
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Re: Ju 88 C-2 and C-4 diference?

Hi Peter and Artie;

Thanks both for your inputs... :-)

Not knowing for shure, but I suspect 0648 ff as C-4 on 15.02.41 is nearly two months after 0649 ff 21.12.40 - It taken then two months to convert? (I am not saying it had flown as A-5(F)). I am pretty shure FM date of all 0648 components is actually around 11.40 (and assembled just after mid December). By 08.02.41 the numbers had reached 0753. I do not think the factory floor was big enought than for about 40 fuselages at any one time. 0648 is more than 100 planes before ...

Bringing up the question of Bernburg Conversion Center
(and ´second´ assembly line at that airfield!) - was there mounting in more than one big hangar?

cheers
ed

Last edited by edNorth; 28th August 2007 at 23:49.
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Old 28th August 2007, 15:16
ArtieBob ArtieBob is offline
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Re: Ju 88 C-2 and C-4 diference?

Dear Ed,

A few additional comments. Trying to place the dates of succeeding individual W.Nr. aircraft is pretty tricky. AFAIK it is the BAL acceptance date stamped on the main tags, not final assembly. Examples of day by day production data lists for other types indicate BAL acceptance did not occur in numeric sequence. If an aircraft was a real “lemon” the BAL acceptance date could be weeks or even months after final assembly. I suspect this is why different sources of monthly production data most often do not agree exactly. Also have a feeling the tarmac at Bernberg at times was filled with aircraft awaiting rework and BAL acceptance.

As a cross check to the BAL data on Umbau for early Ju 88 Cs, looked at the JFM factory reports. The total listed for JFM A-1s, A-5s and D-2s (NO “C”s listed) was 876 (plus two A-5 fuselages for Dornier). That total checks very closely to the totals in my data base for W.Nr. xxx Ju 88s including all “C”s (-1 through -5, plus -7). IMHO, this pretty well confirms from a separate primary source, all early Ju 88 Cs were converted after final assembly, i.e.,Umbau.

There were at least 3 allied teams that evaluated the Bernberg facility after capture, and before the pullback. These were the CIOS, USAAF and USSBS. The first two resulted in summary reports. The USSBS did not publish a report, but the data gathered is still in the USSBS files. It definitely appears there were repair and Umbau activities associated with Bernberg, although FZB included facilities off the airfield complex, as well as Langanaslza and Fritzlar.

Best Regards,

Artie Bob
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  #9  
Old 28th August 2007, 20:28
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ju55dk ju55dk is offline
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Re: Ju 88 C-2 and C-4 diference?

Here is an extract from RLM "Zusammenstellung der eingeführten Flugzeugmuster" von 19-04-1941!!!!

Junker
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Old 30th August 2007, 05:29
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George Hopp George Hopp is offline
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Re: Ju 88 C-2 and C-4 diference?

Great information! Thank you all!!
George
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