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  #11  
Old 12th November 2018, 10:47
Andrei Demjanko Andrei Demjanko is offline
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Re: Question about Lfl.6 stregth reports 1945

Are we talking about the reports like the excerpt in the attachment?

I could be wrong, of course, but from this I can not see why the first column is not Soll.
It is interesting to note that the number in the first column is almost always equals the sum of numbers in the second and fourth columns. So, if the first column means authorized strength and the second means actual strength, the fourth column could mean Fehlen (lacking). The rare exceptions to the rule 1 = 2+4 could either be a typo or indicate the unit's uncertainity about the fate of the recently missing crews
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  #12  
Old 12th November 2018, 15:58
John Manrho John Manrho is offline
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Re: Question about Lfl.6 stregth reports 1945

If you copy a whole page and attach it you will see what I mean. For a/c only actual strength and operational is recorded (not the SOLL).

For crews this is the same. If SOLL would have been the 1st column you would see the same number for all similar units. You do not see that. The first column is definitely ACTUAL (IST) strength not SOLL.

John
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  #13  
Old 12th November 2018, 21:51
sidney sidney is offline
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Re: Question about Lfl.6 stregth reports 1945

To repeat my query.

I thought that 3rd: Einsatzbereit (combat ready) + 4th: Bedingt Einsatzbereit (conditional combat ready) equals 2nd: Ist (actual strength). However, from the LW strength report of 13 April 1945 (widely circulated), that is apparently not necessarily the case.

So, who are these pilots covered under the 4th: Bedingt Einsatzbereit? Replacement pilots?

Sinisa
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  #14  
Old 13th November 2018, 10:16
Andrei Demjanko Andrei Demjanko is offline
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Re: Question about Lfl.6 stregth reports 1945

John,

I can see no similarity between tables for aircraft and crews as the number of columns is obviously different.
The form of four numbers under title "crews" looks like being widely known and widely used in the time and not restricted just to this document, so its meaning was self-evident to those, whom these reports were adressed
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  #15  
Old 13th November 2018, 19:21
John Manrho John Manrho is offline
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Re: Question about Lfl.6 stregth reports 1945

Just to get us back on the right track....this is the document Andrey K. was referring to. As you can see a/c are listed only as "Ist" and "Eins."...no soll. This is also clear as for instance all Gruppe of JG 6 should have Soll-Stärke of 68 (or possibly 52) at that time.

The 4 columns of crew is the riddle.....the first column CAN NOT be Soll as that should have been listed as 68 (52) for all JG-Gruppen at the eastern front. So, I believe my explanation for the first three columns are correct as you can match them with other available Lfl. 6 Einsatzbereitschaft Meldungen for a certain period and they match in numbers. The point is.....what is that last column....the majority of the units have -0- ZERO there....

Thanks,

John
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File Type: jpg Lfl. 6 E_Meldung von 4.2.45 1800 hrs.jpg (197.1 KB, 68 views)

Last edited by John Manrho; 13th November 2018 at 20:01. Reason: typo
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  #16  
Old 16th November 2018, 10:52
Andrei Demjanko Andrei Demjanko is offline
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Re: Question about Lfl.6 stregth reports 1945

John,

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Manrho View Post
This is also clear as for instance all Gruppe of JG 6 should have Soll-Stärke of 68 (or possibly 52) at that time.
It was not necessarily so. Please look at the link below. I think that the meaning of the column Besatzung there is similar to the meaning of similar column in Lfl.Kdo. 6 documents. And we could see that, for example all Gruppen of J.G. 26 have different Soll strength of pilots
http://ww2.dk/articles/elflr1.html
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  #17  
Old 16th November 2018, 23:41
John Manrho John Manrho is offline
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Re: Question about Lfl.6 stregth reports 1945

Andrei,

Unfortunately M.Holm on his website made a mistake. As you will have noticed these are not the original documents and M.Holm made an error in his tables. I have enclosed the Einsatzbereitschaft Lfl. 6 of 1.4.45 in the evening. That is listed on the same webpage also. You can compare the original document with the website of M.Holm and you will easily see the mistake.

Finally, I also enclosed the E-Meldung format of the KTB Lfl. 6 for the SAME date 1.4.45 and you now can compare the numbers. You will notice that the four columns of the original question/document indeed mean;

1. Ist
2. Einsatzbereit
3. Verfügbar

I now could also solve the riddle of the last column...(so stupid)....it is always the delta between 1st and 2nd column therefore meaning;

4.Nicht Einsatzbereit

I hope this clarifies all......

John
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File Type: jpg Einsatzbereitschaft Lfl. 6 VIII. FK 1.4.45.jpg (201.6 KB, 50 views)
File Type: jpg E_Meldung KTB Lfl. 6 vom 1.4.45 18.00 Uhr.jpg (192.0 KB, 45 views)
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  #18  
Old 17th November 2018, 17:18
Andrey Kuznetsov Andrey Kuznetsov is offline
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Re: Question about Lfl.6 stregth reports 1945

John, thank you!

Very interesting.

Kind regards,
Andrey
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  #19  
Old 23rd November 2018, 17:51
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Nick Beale Nick Beale is offline
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Re: Question about Lfl.6 strength reports 1945

See the attached for instructions on how to fill out a unit strength return. I don't know if these still applied in 1945 and under Luftflotte 6 of course.
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