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Old 23rd April 2012, 19:12
Laurent Rizzotti Laurent Rizzotti is offline
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Luftwaffe fighter crashing into a church in Arnhem in September 1944

Hello,

On 20 September 1944 Lt Hans Ransmayer of 15./JG 54 was killed in Arnhem area. Both Gunter Rosipal and the official crash list of the Netherlands Defence Minister indicated he hit a church tower, the St. Walburgiskerk, in Arnhem.

I thought that such a crash in middle of a well-covered battle should have ground witnesses too, and I found a webpage describing this crash from the ground... except that the date is then 19 September and the aricraft is a Bf 109 of I./JG 76 flown by an Unteroffizier Schmidt.

So we have two different pilots and two different dates given for probably the same event (to have the two pilots crash into the same tower seems unlikely to me). From my past experiences the official crash list of the Netherlands Defence Minister is rather accurate, so I will rather go with it and guess the ground testimony is wrong by one day... that is not so bad given the fact that the paratroops there had something else to do that writing diaries at the time.

Any comment, correction or addition will be welcome.

Best regards

Laurent
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Old 23rd April 2012, 19:28
Matti Salonen Matti Salonen is offline
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Re: Luftwaffe fighter crashing into a church in Arnhem in September 1944

I have only the following. Cannot find any Uffz Schmidt. There is Uffz Paul Schmitt, but he was reported missing 1944-09-29.

1944-09-20, 15./JG 54, FW 190A-8, 172684, 6 gelbe, Arnhem, Kirchturm von Arnheim um 09.45 Uhr gerammt und in Rhein gestürzt (Start 08.55). Bruch 100 %.
Flugzeugführer Lt Ransmayer, Hans, + (Lt Ransmayer tot erklärt)

Matti
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Old 23rd April 2012, 20:12
Laurent Rizzotti Laurent Rizzotti is offline
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Re: Luftwaffe fighter crashing into a church in Arnhem in September 1944

Thanks Matti, this is a confirmation of what I have in my sources.

Concerning Uffz Schmidt of I./JG 76, the official Dutch crahs list had three I./JG 76 in Arnhem area on 19 September: Uffz H Schmidt, Uffz Treibmann and Lt Reich, but these entries have very few details.
See http://www.defensie.nl/media/verlies...m46-154755.pdf

Uffz Paul Schmitt is listed by the same source on 29 September 1944 with an identified aircraft (type and WNr)
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Old 23rd April 2012, 21:37
John Manrho John Manrho is offline
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Re: Luftwaffe fighter crashing into a church in Arnhem in September 1944

It was Ransmayer who hit the church tower. It was covered in smoke and apperantly he saw it too late. Crash was witnessed by wingman.

The reason why this is also listed as the Uffz. Schmidt is that a Dutch researcher made the wrong conclusion back in the nineties and published that also. He believed the date in the diary is correct and simply saw Uffz. Schmidt from I./JG 76 as the only candidate.

The loss of Uffz. Schmidt of I./JG 76 (gefallen) comes from the war diary of the 3. JD. No further details.

John
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Old 23rd April 2012, 21:46
Brian Bines Brian Bines is offline
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Re: Luftwaffe fighter crashing into a church in Arnhem in September 1944

ADI(K) report 551/1044 shows that a Gef. Georg Kuhr flying a Me 109 G-12 ( this is what he claimed but I assume a G-14) Yellow 4 of 3/JG76 made a belly landing at 1200 hrs on 29th Sept. near Nijmegen he was made a POW. Any chance that the aircraft shown as being flown on the 29th. by Uffz Paul Schmitt was Kuhr's aircraft and Schmitt is an accidental entry for that day, I did not see an entry for Kuhr from the Defence Ministry list on the 29th ,

Regards

Brian Bines
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Old 23rd April 2012, 21:56
John Manrho John Manrho is offline
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Re: Luftwaffe fighter crashing into a church in Arnhem in September 1944

Brian,

That is another crash....Gefr. Kuhr flew Bf 109G-14, werknummer 460408, gelbe 4, 3./JG 76.

There are more crashes missing in the Dutch MoD list.....several enthousiast are working on an update.

John
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Old 23rd April 2012, 21:58
Brian Bines Brian Bines is offline
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Re: Luftwaffe fighter crashing into a church in Arnhem in September 1944

John, Thanks for the info.,

Regards

Brian Bines
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Old 24th April 2012, 20:37
Laurent Rizzotti Laurent Rizzotti is offline
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Re: Luftwaffe fighter crashing into a church in Arnhem in September 1944

Thanks a lot, especially to John
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Old 25th April 2012, 00:15
John Manrho John Manrho is offline
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Re: Luftwaffe fighter crashing into a church in Arnhem in September 1944

And Ransmayer was quite a succesful pilot....30+ vic
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Old 2nd September 2019, 01:28
Gaston Gaston is offline
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Re: Luftwaffe fighter crashing into a church in Arnhem in September 1944

Hit Lt. Ransmayer the church tower while shelling targets on the ground? Or escaping from RAF / USAAF fighters? Was the smoke that covered the church tower came from the burning technique on the ground or the remnants of the morning mist?

Is there a photo of Hans Ransmayer?

Thanks for the anwers.
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