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  #1  
Old 15th August 2018, 15:02
Andrey Kuznetsov Andrey Kuznetsov is offline
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Three Ju88 Feb.1943 - Kusta Krim/FlieFu Krim or Nachtfluglehrgang 3?

Hello friends,

From GQM loss returns about 3 Ju88 from FlieFu Krim:

1.Feb.43 WNr.3596 Motorbrand 100%, crew KIA (Fw ~Netzheld, Lt Müller, Gefr ~Zieger, Obgfr ~Rummhetzer)
2.Feb.43 WNr.5505 50%, crew WIA (Uffz Hayn, Uffz ~Droil, Gefr ~Nowack, Obgfr ~Jänkel)
9.Feb.43 WNr.8719 20% Bruchlandung, crew safe.

It seems FlieFu Krim hadn't Ju88s and these planes were from reinforcement for Einsatzstaffel Nachtfluglehrgang 3. Or Einsatzstaffel was absorbed by Kusta Krim by the beginning of Feb.1943?

Two planes mentioned above had personnel losses so they should be mentioned in NVM. Any info is interesting (board codes, Ju88 modifications etc.)
Info about Kusta Krim and Nachtfluglehrgang 3 Einsatzstaffel from units strength reports also interesting.

Best regards,
Andrey
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Old 15th August 2018, 19:27
Stig Jarlevik Stig Jarlevik is online now
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Re: Three Ju88 Feb.1943 - Kusta Krim/FlieFu Krim or Nachtfluglehrgang 3?

No answer Andrey

However I am a bit lost about the report of WNr 5505 since I have that one as lost with I./KG 51 on 1.8.1942

Cheers
Stig
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Old 15th August 2018, 19:46
Andrey Kuznetsov Andrey Kuznetsov is offline
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Re: Three Ju88 Feb.1943 - Kusta Krim/FlieFu Krim or Nachtfluglehrgang 3?

Hello Stig,


1.8.42 No.5505 had 40% damage, apparently was repaired.


Cheers,
Andrey
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Old 15th August 2018, 19:57
Stig Jarlevik Stig Jarlevik is online now
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Re: Three Ju88 Feb.1943 - Kusta Krim/FlieFu Krim or Nachtfluglehrgang 3?

Hallo again Andrey

That was interesting news. I post what I have copied in the past.
9K+CL I./KG 51 shot down by AA-fire 1.8.1942 Amawir-Krapotki, ff Uffz Heinz Kühl, BO Uffz Johann Hufnagel, BF Uffz Heinz Irmscher, BS Gefr Kurt Jans all MIA

It sounds incredible that a loss like this was only 40%

Can you confirm you have the same details?

Cheers
Stig
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Old 15th August 2018, 20:16
Andrey Kuznetsov Andrey Kuznetsov is offline
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Re: Three Ju88 Feb.1943 - Kusta Krim/FlieFu Krim or Nachtfluglehrgang 3?

Yes, details in GQM loss return are in contradiction with 40% damages. Maybe the plane was founded by Germans a bit later? Again, NVM should help.


Cheers,
Andrey
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  #6  
Old 15th August 2018, 20:22
Larry deZeng Larry deZeng is offline
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Re: Three Ju88 Feb.1943 - Kusta Krim/FlieFu Krim or Nachtfluglehrgang 3?

Andrey,

Here is all I have, but I am guessing you already have all of this:

Nachtfluglehrgang 3
21 Jan 43: based in Crimea with 9(5) aircraft under Luftwaffengruppe Kaukasus. It was being used operationally over the Taman Peninsula on this date. No further information.
[Sources: J.S.Hayward - Stopped at Stalingrad: The Luftwaffe and Hitler’s Defeat in the East 1942-1943 (Lawrence (KS): Univ. Press of Kansas, 1998), pp.181 and 360.]
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Old 15th August 2018, 21:08
Dan History Dan History is offline
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Re: Three Ju88 Feb.1943 - Kusta Krim/FlieFu Krim or Nachtfluglehrgang 3?

I have been wondering about the exact nature of such units for a while. I have reproduced a set of relevant links below, for reference and perhaps a response by those who have some additional information

Feldwebel Heinrich Stoklassa, born on 02.02.1918 in Kauthen (modern day Kouty) in the Sudetenland
http://www.hultschiner-soldaten.de/_...sch.php?id=548
"V prosinci 1942 byl převelen do Prowehren/Osstpreussen (1. Flughafen-Betriebskompanie der Lehrgruppe für Nachtflugausbildung ). A od března 1943 sloužil v Schaulen/Lotyšsko." - Czech text

Google translate and my editing give the following - "Was transferred to the 1. Flughafen-Betriebskompanie der Lehrgruppe für Nachtflugausbildung in Prowehren in December 1942. From March 1943 he served in Šiauliai."

Thread about Sondergruppe L, started by Norbert in 2011
http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?t=25799

Some loss details provided by Jim Perry in 2012
http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?t=30786

Andrey's thread of early July 2016
http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?p=220278

Andrey's thread of mid-July 2016
http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?t=45546

Thread about Bombenfliegerschule Bobruisk on Axis History of February this year, with Larry's answer within
https://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=233622

Blindflugschule 2
Took over Nachtfluglehrgang 2 (Bobruisk) on 6.4.43 as Einsatzgruppe der Blindflugschule 2, which moved to Baranowitschi 26.7.43, and became Einsatzgruppe der 2. Flieger-Schul-Division on 17.11.43.
http://www.axishistory.com/books/160...indflugschulen

Blindflugschule 9
http://www.ww2.dk/air/schule/b9.htm

"Durch Nachtfluglehrgang wurde Bandenort Albinsk (32 km südwest. Glusk) mit Bomben und Bordwaffen angriffen und zum Teil zerstört."
http://www.rogachev.de/stadt/history/ktb/1943_02_22.htm

"Durch Nachtfluglehrgang wurden die Bandendörfer Franzusskaja-Greblja (8 26 km nordwestl Osipowitschi) und Borki (43 km nordostw. Bobruisk) mit gutem Erfolg bombardiert."
http://www.rogachev.de/stadt/history/ktb/1943_02_27.htm

EKM (dog tag) number assigned to Nachtfluglehrgang 4
https://www.forum-der-wehrmacht.de/i...9-ekm-53999-b/

I have the impression that these units were considered of such limited combat value that they were only employed against partisans, but there is no information which would allow a definitive conclusion.

Regards,

Dan
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Last edited by Dan History; 15th August 2018 at 21:09. Reason: formatting
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Old 16th August 2018, 23:35
Andrey Kuznetsov Andrey Kuznetsov is offline
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Re: Three Ju88 Feb.1943 - Kusta Krim/FlieFu Krim or Nachtfluglehrgang 3?

Hello Dan,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan History View Post
Czech text
I understand Czech texts (and Polish too) though not feel at home in both languages.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan History View Post
Andrey's thread of early July 2016 ... thread of mid-July 2016
Now I know a bit more
See for example very interesting documents (incl. about Nachtfluglehrgang 3 and Stukastaffel Sattler):

http://wwii.germandocsinrussia.org/pages/843369/zooms/8
http://wwii.germandocsinrussia.org/pages/843370/zooms/8
http://wwii.germandocsinrussia.org/pages/843371/zooms/8
http://wwii.germandocsinrussia.org/pages/843372/zooms/8
http://wwii.germandocsinrussia.org/pages/843373/zooms/8
Maybe German forum participants can read handwritten remarks in the 2nd document.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan History View Post
I have the impression that these units were considered of such limited combat value that they were only employed against partisans, but there is no information which would allow a definitive conclusion.
Of course these units weren't "true" combat units. But at least in North Caucasus region they used as real front units, both Nachtfluglehrgang 3's Staffel and especially Stukastaffel Sattler.

Best regards,
Andrey
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Old 16th August 2018, 23:36
Andrey Kuznetsov Andrey Kuznetsov is offline
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Re: Three Ju88 Feb.1943 - Kusta Krim/FlieFu Krim or Nachtfluglehrgang 3?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry deZeng View Post
Here is all I have, but I am guessing you already have all of this:
Thank you, Larry, I know it.
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  #10  
Old 18th August 2018, 00:08
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Re: Three Ju88 Feb.1943 - Kusta Krim/FlieFu Krim or Nachtfluglehrgang 3?

The handwriting on page 0340 is:


Mithin sind höchstens 6 Maschinen täglich einsatzbereit.


Therefore there are at the most 6 aircraft ready for use every day.


Regards


Dirk
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