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  #1  
Old 28th October 2019, 21:27
Andrei Demjanko Andrei Demjanko is offline
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LW Ukrainian volunteer unit?

Hello

There is an old thread on Axis History Forum with some excerpts from wartime propaganda newspaper, suggesting there was Ukrainian flying personnel in Luftwaffe who flew operational missions

https://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=148910

The capition to one of the photos says the crew returned from a recce mission, although aircraft shown looks like trainer or N.S.Gr. equipment.

I've never heard of anything about such personnel or unit before. Was it pure propaganda invention? Was there Ukrainian personnel identified as such in one or several of LW units? Can anyone enlighten me on the subject?
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Old 28th October 2019, 22:50
edwest2 edwest2 is offline
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Re: LW Ukrainian volunteer unit?

Hello Andrei,


See this page: https://books.google.com/books?id=4P...nteers&f=false
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  #3  
Old 28th October 2019, 23:45
Andrei Demjanko Andrei Demjanko is offline
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Re: LW Ukrainian volunteer unit?

Ed,

Thanks a lot!
Interesting story, but my amazement only keep growing. I found it hard to believe there were plans for creation of Me 262 equipped Ukrainian volunteer unit. Also who was Pavel Olejnyk? The book says nothing and I can only presume the author meant Robert Olejnik. In fact Robert Olejnik served with Me 163 units and he was a German citizen
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Old 29th October 2019, 19:56
Graham Boak Graham Boak is offline
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Re: LW Ukrainian volunteer unit?

There were plans for the creation of a Russian Me262 unit, so this is part of the fantasy land that German planners were living in. But they couldn't guarantee defeat within a given timescale, so better a planner than being sent to the Russian Front. (I think that thought explains a lot about late war German military/industry thinking!)
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Old 29th October 2019, 21:40
edwest2 edwest2 is offline
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Re: LW Ukrainian volunteer unit?

Graham,


Do you discount the book portion I linked to? In other words, there were no Ukrainians in Luftwaffe uniforms making combat flights against Russian targets?


My current focus is the technology side of the German war effort. Once the finger pointing ends, I see the roll out of new equipment and improved equipment on the ground and in the air. And the relocation, mostly underground, of manufacturing. On balance, I would say that defense planners and workers were committed to working to continue improvements/developments up to the call to evacuate as the Reich shrank and in the face of imminent capture, and who kept working when they could relocate.


Best,
Ed
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Old 29th October 2019, 23:30
Andrei Demjanko Andrei Demjanko is offline
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Re: LW Ukrainian volunteer unit?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Graham Boak View Post
There were plans for the creation of a Russian Me262 unit
Is there any evidence from primary sources confirming such plans? I see no rationale for creating such a unit at all.

Anyway, I'm aware of existence of so-called Air Force of Russian Liberation Army. The question is if there were similar organisations or units, or at least flying personnel on active service with the Luftwaffe, officially identified as being Ukrainian.

In my opinion this was not the case. The evidence from propaganda newspaper is rather vague and the book The Axis Air Forces: Flying in Support of the German Luftwaffe clearly contains errors and can not be viewed even as a decent secondary source
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Old 30th October 2019, 14:19
Graham Boak Graham Boak is offline
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Re: LW Ukrainian volunteer unit?

My understanding, which may well be based on publications now known to be incorrect, is that the RLA was intended to be equipped with a staffel of fighters - Bf109G - which did (just) begin to be formed, and another of Ju87s. Presumably this would have been actually equipped with Fw190Fs, had it happened. There was also plans - no more - to have a staffel of Me262s, but whether this was to be an extra unit or a re-equipping of the fighter unit I don't know, and suspect never moved beyond a wish list. There would have been nothing unusual about plans to equip future units with the Me262 when it became a standard type, Italian pilots also being trained for this type.
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Old 30th October 2019, 14:31
Larry deZeng Larry deZeng is offline
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Re: LW Ukrainian volunteer unit?

Andrei,

The book cited below has an entire chapter on any and all "Russians" who flew for the Luftwaffe from the 1. Ostfliegerstaffel (russisch) to the ROA formations. There is no mention of Ukrainians or any of the personalities identified as Ukrainian in this thread. However, the author does mention the 25 to 30 "Russian" pilots with military rank who flew with 3. Staffel d. Gruppe Süd/Flugzeugüberführungsgeschwader 1 ferrying factory-fresh Bf 109Gs from South Germany to fighter units of the Front-Luftwaffe. But, as stated earlier, no mention of any Ukrainians right up to 8 May 1945.

Neulen, Hans Werner. In the Skies of Europe: Air forces allied to the Luftwaffe 1939-1945. Ramsburg (Wilts): The Crowood Press, 2000. ISBN: 1 86126 326 0. Hb. Dj. 383p. Illus. Appendices. Source notes. Bibliography. Index.

L.
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Old 31st October 2019, 02:24
Andrei Demjanko Andrei Demjanko is offline
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Re: LW Ukrainian volunteer unit?

Larry,

Many thanks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry deZeng View Post
all "Russians" who flew for the Luftwaffe from the 1. Ostfliegerstaffel (russisch) to the ROA formations. There is no mention of Ukrainians or any of the personalities identified as Ukrainian in this thread.
This is exactly the information I have been asking for. The question was not about origins of personnel but about national units or personnel identified as belonging to Ukrainian "national forces" (UVV, UNA etc) So there were no Ukrainian units or "Ukrainian officers" serving with Luftwaffe and flying operational sorties, as stated in the propaganda newspaper.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry deZeng View Post
There is no mention of Ukrainians or any of the personalities identified as Ukrainian in this thread.
Just in case if you mean mention of Robert Olejnik by me in this thread.
It is my presumption that the person mentioned in The Axis Air Forces: Flying in Support of the German Luftwaffe by Frank Joseph as CO of "an all-jet unit" as Pavel Olejnyk is none other than Robert Olejnik. However, I'm not identifying him as Ukrainian. He was a German. The same is probably the case with "wing leader" Anton Kyivskyj. I presume he meant Kdr. of II./J.G. 1 Herbert Kijewski. The apparent level of understanding of ethnic background of central-eastern Europe by that author is that if Kijew is the capital of Ukraine then Kijewski must be Ukrainian. Needless to say he was not.
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  #10  
Old 31st October 2019, 17:07
edwest2 edwest2 is offline
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Re: LW Ukrainian volunteer unit?

Since I am of Eastern European background, I know spelling problems occur all the time. The German version, the Russian version, the Ukrainian version. I fault anyone who claims problems with spellings of place names and the names of persons. The Germans made Polish place names incomprehensible to someone who did not have a period German map and a period Polish map or any map of an occupied country. How many different ways to spell Kiev? At least four. How about Serbia? Should it be Srbija?


In the interest of further comprehension.


E.
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