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  #1  
Old 14th September 2005, 22:53
pointedeflèche pointedeflèche is offline
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RAF claims, 18.05.1940

Hello,

I'm looking for RAF claims on 18.05.1940 in the Brussels area. I'm eager to learn which RAF squadrons intercepted KG 4 near Brussels that day, resulting in the loss of the following 3 Heinkels 111of KG 4:
  • He111P of 2/KG4 (5J+IK) flown by Lt Helmut Zeiss shot down by 4 Hurricanes west of Brussels and crashed 6 miles n-e of Louvain
  • He111P of 5/KG4 flown by Staffelkapitän Hptm Kurt Leythäuser shot down s-e of Brussels and crash-landed 6 m west of Louvain.
  • He111P of 5/KG4 flown by Lt Hoepel shot down near Brussels and crash-landed near Beauvechain, 6 m s-w of Tirlemont.
Searching the internet, I came across the following two He111 claims:
  • Pilot Officer Yule, Robert Duncan, 145 Sqdn "Yule took part in 145's first action of war on 18 May. On patrol over Brussels twelve He 111's were intercepted in broken cloud. When the German bombers emerged from cover the Hurricanes attacked, Yule shooting one down." http://www.nzfpm.co.nz/aces/yule.htm
  • Squadron Leader Aitkin, The Honourable Max, 601 Sqdn "In May 1940, whilst leading a section of aircraft on patrol over Brussels, this officer attacked one of twelve Heinkel 111s which was finally seen to be losing height with one of its wings on fire with black smoke pouring from the other." NOTE: Public Record Office Air 2/4095 has the original recommendation, prepared about 25 June 1940 which, with additional comments, makes interesting comparison with the above and demonstrates how honours were processed and edited. "On 18 May 1940 Flight Lieutenant Aitken whilst leading a section of the Composite Squadron 601 and 145 on parol over Brussels attacked one of twelve Heinkel 111 aircraft, which was last seen losing height with one plane on fire and the other belching black smoke." http://www.airforce.ca/canraf/CANRAF.A-D.html
Information regarding He111 claims of 601Sqdn, 145 Sqdn and of other Squadrons patroling over Belgium the 18th of May 1940 are most welcome.

Regards,

Dirk
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  #2  
Old 15th September 2005, 22:05
Stig Jarlevik Stig Jarlevik is offline
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Re: RAF claims, 18.05.1940

Hi Dirk

On May 18th RAF made over 100 claims for destroyed, unconfirmed destroyed and damaged enemy aircraft.
Checking RAF Fighter victory claims 1939-40 the following claimes were made over Brussels at 16.25H

145Sq
F/L RG Dutton 1 x He 111 destr
F/L RG Dutton 1 x He 111 destr shared with RD Yule
F/L RG Dutton 1 x He 111 unconfirmed
P/O RD Yule 1 x He 111 destr shared with RG Dutton
P/O MA Newling 1 x He 111 unconfirmed
P/O EJC Wakeham 1 x He 111 destr
P/O EJC Wakeham 1 x He 111 damaged
P/O KR Lucas 1 x He 111 unconfirmed

601Sq
F/O JWM Aitken 1 x He 111 destr
F/O WH Rhodes-
Morehouse 1 x He 111 destr
F/O CJH Riddle 1 x He 111 unconfirmed
S/L L Guinness 2 x He 111 damaged

In all 5 claimed as destroyed, 4 unconfirmed (I believe these were classified as probables later in the war) and 3 damaged.

Cheers
Stig Jarlevik
Gothenburg, Sweden
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Old 16th September 2005, 21:59
pointedeflèche pointedeflèche is offline
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Re: RAF claims, 18.05.1940

Hi Stig Jarlevik,

many, many thanks for the information.

May I ask the source you consulted in reference to the claims of 601 and 145 Sqdn (Is it a first hand source you consulted?).

Best regards
Dirk
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  #4  
Old 16th September 2005, 22:11
Stig Jarlevik Stig Jarlevik is offline
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Re: RAF claims, 18.05.1940

Sorry Dirk

It is the BOOK RAF Fighter Victory claims 1939-40 by John Foreman (Vol 1 in a series that will cover Fighter Commands claims in Europe)

Cheers
Stig
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Old 18th September 2005, 22:45
pointedeflèche pointedeflèche is offline
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Re: RAF claims, 18.05.1940

Thanks Stig,

were there any losses on the side of 145 Sqdn and 601 Sqdn during the He111 interception in the Brussels area at 16.25hours, the 18th of May 1940?

Does anyone has a loss list for 145 and 601 Sqdn that day?

Cheers,
Dirk
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Old 19th September 2005, 16:02
Stig Jarlevik Stig Jarlevik is offline
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Smile Re: RAF claims, 18.05.1940

Lets see Dirk what I can come up with...

Looking in RAF Fighter Command losses Vol 1 for May 18th
145Sq Hurricane I N2600 P/O M A Newling baled out after combat with He 111 16.25H near Brussels. Safe

601Sq Hurricane I L2034 S/Lt L E Guiness damaged in combat with He 111, aircraft left abandoned at Merville

Note that 601Sq also had another loss that day, but that was in combat with Do 17 earlier in the day

Cheers
Stig Jarlevik
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Old 19th September 2005, 23:55
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Juha Juha is offline
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Re: RAF claims, 18.05.1940

BTW pointedeflèche
there is 3 pages on this action in Brian Cull et al Twelve Days in May. Grub Street 1995. Pp are 228 - 230. Stig has given all the facts but from the book You can find how for ex. Flt Lt Roy Dutton, Max Aitken and S/L Guinness reported the action.

HTH
Juha
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Old 20th September 2005, 15:23
pointedeflèche pointedeflèche is offline
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Re: RAF claims, 18.05.1940

Thanks Stig and Juha.

Juha, I'll try to get hold of a copie.
Meanwhile, I'd highly appreciate if you could tell me if there is mention on pages 228-230 about pilots who continued shooting on a He111 after it had made a bellylanding in a field. I'm asking you this, because I'd like to find out the name(s) of the pilot(s) who shot down Staffelkapitän Kurt Leythäuser's He111 (5.KG4) near the hamlet of 'Vrebos' (6 miles west of Louvain). According to Leythäuser's account, Hurricanes kept shooting at his He111 after he had made a bellylanding. Because of the strafing going on, the surviving members of his crew were forced to hide in a small wood. I grew up near 'Vrebos' and spoke with an elderly lady who witnessed as a child the shooting down of Leythäuser's He111, only few seconds before it crashlanded. According to her account the He111 came in low from the south and was chased by two firing fighter planes.
Is Hptm Leythäuser's He111 a plausible candidate for the victory claim shared by F/L Dutton and P/O Yule that day? (see also:Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces/entry: Luftwaffe crash, 18 May 1940, Belgium)

Cheers,
Dirk

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Old 20th September 2005, 20:42
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Juha Juha is offline
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Re: RAF claims, 18.05.1940

Hello pointedeflèche

in the book there isn’t Yule’s account. F/L Dutton didn’t report that he’d have followed any of He 111s to the deck but he reported that after he had attacked second He 111 “My No 2 [Plt Off Yule] went in to attack the aircraft and reported putting it out of action completely…”



But Plt Off Wakeham from Yellow Section reported “Followed two Heinkels to ground level in a deep dive…I immediately noticed the undercarriage drop and smoke poured from both engines…As I broke away, e/a appeared to go straight into ground…”



So no clear match I’m afraid but maybe Wakeham’s is nearest one. Hopefully You can locate a copy so You can assess the reports Yourself. If You cannot ask me again, I’ll then try to find time to type more extensive quotations.



HTH

Juha
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Old 16th October 2005, 19:52
Brian Brian is offline
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Re: RAF claims, 18.05.1940

Hi Dirk

If you would like a copy of Twelve Days in May let me have an address to where I can post you a copy with my compliments.

Brian

(author of said book)
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