Seeking photos of 3.(F)/121 He111H-2 that crashed at Dielkirchen S of Bad Kreuznach, Germany, on 22 Nov. 1939

[Larry Hickey]

Hello,

As a part of the EoE project effort to document all of the losses on both sides during the Phoney War, I'm seeking info on the following a/c, attacked over Belgium but making it back across the frontier before it crashed.

"22 November 1939: 3.(F)/121 Heinkel He111H-2. Badly damaged in attack by Sgt R. Delarue of GC III/7 during factory test flight over the frontier. Chase abandoned over Belgium but finally crashed at Dielkirchen, south of Bad Kreuznach, 9.45 a.m. FF Oberfw Helmuth Gräber, BF Gefr Armin May, BM Oberprüfer Otto Schulz, and Fähnrich Johannes Schulz all killed. (None found in VDK) Aircraft 100% write-off. (Koluft via RS)"

Have any photos survived of this a/c crash, including in any local historical records from the area? Does anyone have any information on a/c codes or W.Nr.?

Regards,

Larry Hickey
EoE Project Coordinator

[Matti Salonen]

I have 7A+DL, but don't ask the source (possibly WASt).

Matti

[GaraiB]

Hello Larry,

I have just one almost similar plane picture. I think paint was same for the looked aircraft.
He111 7A+DH

Best regards,

Balazs

[Larry Hickey]

Matti and Balazs,

Thanx for responding. I actually have three references in the EoE photo and loss DB for 7A+DH.

1) A photo display of the crew of "7A+DH" listing them as all killed on 01.09.39. This does not show the a/c, only portraits of the three crewmen.

In the EoE loss DB, this is:

1 September 1939: 1.(F)/121 Dornier Do17P-1. Crashed in the Zemminer See, south-west of Neustettin, cause unknown. (Ff) Fw Roderich von Poncet, (Beo) Uffz Gerhard Jürß, and (Bf) Gefr Rolf Breitenborn all killed. Aircraft 7A+DH 100% write-off.

2) Two different views of Do17P-1 7A-DH belly landed intact during the winter. The trees in the background have no leaves. This has a very non-standard swastika that almost entirely fills the tail surface, both fin and rudder. This can't be the a/c above as the circumstances don't fit a plane lost in the Zemminer See with all crewmen killed. The winter landscape can only be the winter of 1938-39 or 1939-40. I suspect that this might be 1938-39.

3) The third one in the DB is the same one posted by Balazs. This He111 could be either the a/c in question before it crashed, provided that Matti's coding info of 7A+DH is correct, or a replacement for the one crashed. This appears to have a very freshly painted fuselage cross, which would have happened sometime in the month or so before 22 November. So this could very well be a pre-crash photo of the 22 Nov. loss.

Does anyone have any photos of the actual crash on 22 Nov. that might advance this discussion? Does anyone have any other info on the Do17P 7A+DH with the very unusual over-sized swastika on the tail?

Regards,

Larry Hickey
EoE Project Coordinator

[Snautzer]

Picture of the crew https://ww2aircraft.net/forum/thread...3#post-1673003