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  #11  
Old 16th October 2018, 14:30
Kari Lumppio Kari Lumppio is offline
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Re: Do 17 P KB+TA

Hello!

Some bits more for the "Tallinn period":
http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?t=8618


Cheers,
Kari
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  #12  
Old 16th October 2018, 15:35
S Sheflin S Sheflin is offline
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Re: Do 17 P KB+TA

OK, thanks Tom.
Respectfully,
Steve Sheflin
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  #13  
Old 16th October 2018, 22:41
Stig Jarlevik Stig Jarlevik is online now
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Re: Do 17 P KB+TA

Quote:
Originally Posted by Norbert Schuchbauer View Post
Do 17 P-1 WNr. 1076 was destroyed on 29-Jan-41 while with LDKdo 4.
Do 17 KB+TA was in Estonia from Mar-44 to May-44
If KB+TA was a Bü 131, which Do 17 was in Estonia March-May 1944? KR+TA??
If so, then KR+TA is unlikely to have been WNr 1076.

Cheers
Stig
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  #14  
Old 16th October 2018, 23:08
Rasmussen Rasmussen is offline
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Re: Do 17 P KB+TA

In the Startkladde of airfield Fritzlar is mentioned an Do 17, KB+TA. It was flown with crew Scheidle/Schindler/Zdirmek (Name isn't good to read) on 07 September 1942 from Hannover-Vahrenwald (11.02 am) to Fritzlar (11.36 am). On 30 September 1942 was flown an Do 17, KP+TA, from Fritzlar (13.00 pm) to Posen (15.18 pm) with crew Urbik/ Lang. I'd guess one of the signs is wrong but which? Or it's the Bücker sign wrong?
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  #15  
Old 16th October 2018, 23:46
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Norbert Schuchbauer Norbert Schuchbauer is offline
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Re: Do 17 P KB+TA

I have KP+TA as a Ar 96 B-7 WNr. 550232. I think the Bücker is wrong and it should be KB+TA in the Startkladde.
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  #16  
Old 17th October 2018, 01:06
gogh gogh is offline
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Re: Do 17 P KB+TA

Attachment 17208

Attachment 17209

source expired Ebay
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  #17  
Old 17th October 2018, 04:51
Tom Willis Tom Willis is offline
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Re: Do 17 P KB+TA

Hi Kari - Post 11 - I must have missed the updates so thanks for the reminder of not only the data but how time flies by so quickly!
Is the Tallin data based on radio flight transmissions which would give the radio call sign and written in Logs. Or were these landing data at Tallin like the Fritzlar documents? Or were these based on Finnish observation reports taken from a distance?
Post 16 - Thanks Peter for the photos. Damage was minimal so would have been repaired quickly, pity no dates to accident. Could this be a genuine case of a double Stkz paradox or a mistake? Perhaps K(R)+TA could be right after all. Is there another photo of the Do17 showing KB+TA or is there just the one.
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  #18  
Old 17th October 2018, 12:14
Kari Lumppio Kari Lumppio is offline
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Re: Do 17 P KB+TA

Hello!

Germans did announce their flights to Finland, over Finland, from Finland, over the Gulf of Finland and Northern Estonia. Generally where Finns could observe them and knowledge of friend or foe was needed.

I think the data was sent mostly verbally by telephone. There was "landlines" on the bottom of the gulf between Finland and Estonia even then. Data may have also been telexed? The recordings (transcriptions) were handwritten in any case.

I have feeling that at times the sender was Estonian or perhaps Germans too pronounce certain letters "hard". Typically when Estonian says "B" Finns hear "P" (same for D & T G & K). So more likely error would have been B transcripted as P. I remember that there were many clear cases of that. Otherwise same code having once in a while a P (hard letter) insted of a B (soft letter). In my opinion if the "Ilmavalvontakomppania" material has code letter B, it quite likely was that.

If sent by telephone P and R do not really mix.

Another - and harder problem, IMO - was the handwriting of the transcriptions. But that does not concern so much the B and P comparison. But even then would I have made the KB+TA note erroneously six times in a row?

Unfortunately I have no access to my digital photos to check the KB+TA issue.


Cheers,
Kari
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  #19  
Old 18th October 2018, 12:33
ChrisS ChrisS is offline
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Re: Do 17 P KB+TA

Whilst respecting Tom's comment to me this looks like X8+TA therefore of Transportstaffel XI. Fliegerkorps.
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  #20  
Old 18th October 2018, 14:29
Stig Jarlevik Stig Jarlevik is online now
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Re: Do 17 P KB+TA

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisS View Post
Whilst respecting Tom's comment to me this looks like X8+TA therefore of Transportstaffel XI. Fliegerkorps.
Interesting theory Chris.

Two problems as I see it here. The first letter regardless if a K or an X seems not quite right for any of them. Tom suggests the angle and shape of the fuselage, but I am not 100% comfortable with either. It will be tricky to determine which is correct.
Secondly, I cannot imagine an aircraft less suitable for a transport unit than a Do 17, especially the slimmer versions.
Finally I also have a report that the unit only operated in Staffel strength and therby only used H as its last letter. If so, only Ju 52s have been reported marked as such. No idea if true or not.

Cheers
Stig
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