Bf110 & RZ65 "Trommelgerät"

[José Lourenço]

I'm looking for any information conserning to "Trommelgerät" RZ65 tested in two Bf110 prototypes: First, in a Bf110B-0 (D-ADJD) equiped with a semi automaticaly-loaded 8 rounds cylindrical magazine inside the rear cockpit and the barrel protrunding beneath the nose. Late was used a Bf110F-2(V19) - WNr. 2656 - fitted with RZ65, but now a 12 rounds cylindrical magazine below the fuselage. I undestood that this should be a improved version of same equipment.
I'd like to know any reference book for pictures and/or drawing.
I have also a short text refering to a Bf110 equiped with snow skies, so any hints will be wellcome.
tanks in advance
José Lourenço

[Grzesio]

Hi,

As far as I know, the TG launcher had only one version - with a drum for 8 rockets.
Bf 110 V19 (BB+AK, W.Nr. 2656) wasn't equipped with a TG, but with 12 separate EG (Einzelgeraet) launchers, for just one projectile each (and so not an improved version), mounted in two rows (7+5) under the fuselage and covered by a fairing in a form of a huge gondola. You can see a picture of the launchers with the fairing removed here: http://www.net.bialystok.pl/~hess/r_lpn_rz65.htm , there's also a schematic drawing of the TG (but I'm not sure if the link works at the moment ).
I also know about a Bf 110 NE+AC used for RZ 65 tests, but I have no idea about it's identity. There was also a Bf 110 equipped with a single EG launcher under its rear fuselage, shooting left, perpendicularly to the flight direction - it's said to be an E-2 aircraft, but I'm not sure (maybe the V19 again?).

Kind regards

Grzesio

[José Lourenço]

DearMr. Grzesio
Thanks for your anser. My reference is an article in Air International magazine (Mai-86) - "Messerschmitt's Strategic Fighter...The Bf110". It quotes a Bf110F-2 as test bed for the RZ65 and WGr 21. The RZ65 was a 73mm rocket spin-stabilized packed in rotating cylindrical magazine. It was intended to be used for ground atacks. Fired from a distence of 350 m against a 6x6 m target, it achieved a 40% hits during trials at tarnewitz.But the RML found it not suitble for use.
All the best
José Lourenço

[Grzesio]

There are numerous data about RZ 65 (in)accuracy in available books, e.g that it achieved 15 per cent of hits as compared to 26 per cent by the MG/FF in the same conditions - e.t.c. As far as I know, the rocket was intended for both air-to-ground and air-to-air role, but it was tested at ground targets only.
But the projectile wasn't scrapped very soon, even if there was no significant increase of its performance achieved after initial improvements by 1939. There were some later a/c planned to be armed with the RZ 65 (Me 163B, Ju 88P for example), while numerous were used for tests (He 111, Me 210, Bf 109F, Fw 190A...). A Ju 88 with four TGs was used for combat trials against ground targets as late as 1943 (unsuccessfully), while the enlarged version of the rocket - the RZ 73 - was planned for use till the end of the war, while it's AA version, which saw some very limited deployment, is known as the Föhn.

Regards

Grzesio

[JoMe]

Hey together

I have read your comments to the Bf110 with RZ65 armament.
This weapon was tested with Bf 110 V19 (F-2) / 2656, but this plane wears SKZ: BD + WR.
Further two Bf 110 was also testing with this weapon:
Bf 110 E-1 / 3854 / VJ + OB (1941)
Bf 110 / ? / BK + AN (12.40)

regards
Jochen

[Grzesio]

Thanks for correction!
As I remember correctly at the moment, both SKZ quoted by me, i.e. NE+AC and BB+AK, were given by Nowarra in 'Die deutsche Flugkoerper' - not too impressive booklet anyway (but maybe somewhere else). I've never seen a picture of a Bf 110 with both RZ armament and SKZ visible.

Kind regards

Grzesio

[José Lourenço]

Thank you all!

I thing this is a litlle bit "cloudy" subject yet. Who knows some day something will be rised from a dusty file. Any way, thanks for all information.
All the best
ps.
K A Merrick in his book "Deutsche Flugzeug Cockipt" has a godd picture of a Bf109F-2(V35) with pack of 4 RZ65 in each wing.

[Pawel Burchard]

Can add following - E-Stelle Tarnewitz conducted RZ65 trials with following airframes:

Bf 110 W.Nr. 1732 D-AYFW (transferred 1-Dec-38 from Gotha)
Bf 110 W.Nr. 3854 (Stand 20-Aug-42)
Me 210 W.Nr. 2347 (Stand 20-Aug-42)

Above is from my handwritten notes from T321/R55 made back in 1997.

Hope this helps,
Pawel

[ArtieBob]

IIRC, USN interrogation of the RZ 65 and RZ 73 manufacturer indicated that the development for both of these weapons was complete, but they were not put into service because of dispersion. Their continued development of unguided rockets abandoned spin stabilization for fin stabilization. The Germans felt it was a mistake that they had pursued spin stabilization as long as they had.

Best regards,

Artie Bob

[Yedyny]

Hi, please tell me what type of 'pipe' is this; somebody told me, that could be RZ65. I think there is number Fl277100.