|
Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the German Luftwaffe and the Air Forces of its Allies. |
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#11
|
|||
|
|||
Re: German losses on Norwegian west coast 1944
To track a loss in 1944, you can check two sources:
1) Flugzeugbestand und Bewegungsmeldungen, available for most units on http://www.ww2.dk/air.html. This show that for your period (June to September 1944) the only JG 5 unit that had Fw 190s was IV./JG 5 The following "losses" were listed for this Gruppe: June: 1 Fw 190 A-3 to "Überholung" (overhaul) July: no FW 190 lost August: 2 Fw 190 A-3 to "Überholung" September: 4 Fw 190 F-8 and 1 Fw 190 A-8 to enemy action, 2 Fw 190 A-3, 1 Fw 190 A-8 and 1 Fw 190 F-8 without enemy action So from this source, it seems that September 1944 could be the right month. AFAIK this documents lost all aircraft lost to the unit, meaning aircraft effectively destroyed, missing or damaged beyond repair, but also those repairable outside the unit and so transferred to a repair facility. Of the 9 Fw 190 losses above, only two were in my list above, because pilots were killed. 2) the database of the Luftwaffe losses summary, available for some units (but AFAIK all JG units) at http://www.ahs.no/ref_db/lw_summ_los...iew.asp?PAGE=1 For IV./JG 5 in September 1944 there is: 05/09/1944 1 Destroyed without enemy action on non-operational flight 07/09/1944 1 Destroyed without enemy action on non-operational flight 10/09/1944 1 Damaged without enemy action on non-operational flight 17/09/1944 1 Damaged without enemy action on non-operational flight 19/09/1944 1 Destroyed without enemy action on non-operational flight 22/09/1944 1 Damaged without enemy action on non-operational flight 25/09/1944 1 Destroyed by gunfire from enemy aircraft during operational flight, observed by enemy 25/09/1944 1 Damaged by gunfire from enemy aircraft during operational flight, not observed by enemy 26/09/1944 3 Destroyed by gunfire from enemy aircraft during operational flight, observed by enemy 26/09/1944 1 Damaged without enemy action on operational flight 27/09/1944 1 Damaged without enemy action on non-operational flight 29/09/1944 1 Damaged without enemy action on operational flight 29/09/1944 1 Destroyed by gunfire from enemy aircraft during operational flight, observed by enemy Total: 15 losses Destroyed by gunfire from enemy aircraft during operational flight, observed by enemy: 5 Damaged by gunfire from enemy aircraft during operational flight, not observed by enemy: 1 Damaged without enemy action on operational flight: 2 Destroyed without enemy action on non-operational flight: 3 Damaged without enemy action on non-operational flight: 4 As said above, IV./JG 5 Bewegungsmeldungen reported 9 Fw 190 lost in September 1944, but also 6 Bf 109s (1 to enemy action, 5 without), so both sources are coherent (that is not always the case) Compare it with the loss list from the old luftwaffe.no loss list: Date;Aircraft;Unit;Start;S.det.;WNr;Vknz.;Reason;; Dam.;Loss;Pilot;Ploss;Area;Place down 05/09/1944;Messerschmitt Bf 109 G;IV./JG 5;Petsamo;5F;;;Accident;;;?%;Pilot unk;unk;FINLAND;Par/ ved Petsamo flyplass? 07/09/1944;Messerschmitt Bf 109 G;IV./JG 5;Petsamo;5F;;;Accident;betjening;;?%;Pilot unk;unk;FINLAND;Sta/ eller Lan/ Petsamo flyplass 10/09/1944;Messerschmitt Bf 109 G;IV./JG 5;Salmijärvi;5F;;;Accident;betjening;?%;;Pilot unk;unk;FINLAND;Nla/ Salmijärvi omr. 17/09/1944;Messerschmitt Bf 109 G;IV./JG 5;Salmijärvi;5F;;;Accident;betjening;?%;;Pilot unk;0-0-0-1;FINLAND;Nla/ Salmijärvi omr. 19/09/1944;Messerschmitt Bf 109 G;IV./JG 5;Nautsi?;5F;;;Accident;betjening;;100%;Pilot unk;unk;FINLAND;Cra/ Nautsi området 26/09/1944;Focke-Wulf Fw 190 F-8;13./JG 5;unk;?A;WNr. 058 1665;Weisse 11;Russian A/C;;;100%;Uffz. Kurt Thonemann (+);1-0-0-0;NORWAY;Cra/s off Vadsø 26/09/1944;Focke-Wulf Fw 190 F-8;13./JG 5;unk;5F;WNr. 581668;Hvit 10;Russian A/C;;;100%;Uffz. Hermann Hagenmeyer (+);1-0-0-0;NORWAY;Cra/s Vadsø omr. That gives: 05/09/1944: 1 Bf 109 destroyed without enemy action on non-operational flight, possibly in Petsamo area 07/09/1944: 1 Bf 109 destroyed without enemy action on non-operational flight, on landing at Petsamo 10/09/1944: 1 Bf 109 damaged without enemy action on non-operational flight, force-landed in Salmijärvi area 17/09/1944: 1 Bf 109 damaged without enemy action on non-operational flight, force-landed in Salmijärvi area 19/09/1944: 1 Bf 109 destroyed without enemy action on non-operational flight, crashed in Nautsi area (at this point we have already five Bf 109 losses without enemy action, so all losses without enemy action below should be Fw 190s) 22/09/1944: 1 Fw 190 damaged without enemy action on non-operational flight 25/09/1944: 1 Bf 109 or Fw 190 destroyed by gunfire from enemy aircraft during operational flight, observed by enemy 25/09/1944: 1 Bf 109 or Fw 190 damaged by gunfire from enemy aircraft during operational flight, not observed by enemy 26/09/1944: 2 Fw 190s (identified) and one Bf 109 or Fw 190 destroyed by gunfire from enemy aircraft during operational flight, observed by enemy 26/09/1944: 1 Fw 190 damaged without enemy action on operational flight 27/09/1944: 1 Fw 190 damaged without enemy action on non-operational flight 29/09/1944: 1 Fw 190 damaged without enemy action on operational flight 29/09/1944: 1 Bf 109 or Fw 190 destroyed by gunfire from enemy aircraft during operational flight, observed by enemy Conclusion: no Fw 190 of IV./JG 5 destroyed in a crash in west Norway between June and September 1944 according to these sources Second conclusion: the old luftwaffe.no loss list possibly puts Bf 109s for the losses above (for which most details are lacking) as the main aircraft of the Gruppe. If this is the case, there is a possibility that one of the total losses of the 5th, 7th and 19th might be a Fw 190. Losses at the start of the month, especially the first with a question mark on location could be during the move north from SW Norway to the northern front. |
#12
|
|||
|
|||
Re: German losses on Norwegian west coast 1944
Thank you very much for sharing these details. Reason for thinking this is a Fw 190 is the parts which still exist today. One part is clearly marked Focke-Wulf.
Will try to find a way to post pictures, anyone with a god “how-to”? |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
US aircraft wrack to id. | KrisJG3 | Allied and Soviet Air Forces | 15 | 13th August 2015 20:39 |
Some Luftwaffe losses , Normandy 1944 | zorglub | Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces | 0 | 12th January 2012 16:12 |
Seeking confirmation of I./KG30 losses from Luftflotte V raid (Driffield) on E Coast England on 15.8.40 and other info on Ju88 losses on that raid. | Larry Hickey | Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces | 5 | 28th February 2011 12:49 |
The Liberal View of the German Soldier | Sylvester Stadler | The Second World War in General | 15 | 22nd March 2009 20:15 |
Foundation for German communication and related technologies | rob van den nieuwendijk | Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces | 3 | 4th May 2007 23:57 |