allied pilots in luftwaffe

[brewerjerry]

Hi all,
Just a strange thought, I know it is well documented that there were 'allied nation' troops that served with the german ground forces in WW2 ( as I understand it only on the east front ).
But anyone know of any air crew from 'allied nations' , that flew in the luftwaffe ?
Cheers
Jerry

[LMLassen]

I'm no Luftwaffe expert, but this may explain why few 'allied' pilots served in the Luftwaffe: A few Danes managed to join Luftwaffe in 1941-1942. They all had previous service in the Danish Army and Navy air services. But German occupied Denmark was not an Allied Nation at the time (not legally Axis either).

When they went to Berlin to be tested - they were tested with a large number of foreign nationals - among them applicants from Ukraine and China).
Six Danish pilots got accepted, but after a short while they were transferred to the Waffen SS (which had recruited a large number of at the same time).
The reason for this was a 'Führerbefehl' that demanded all foreigners should serve in the Waffen SS - this would explain the few foreign/allied pilots in the Luftwaffe.

The Danes refused the transfer claiming they joined as pilots and would only serve as pilots - only a personal protest to Reichmarshall Herman Göering made it possible for them to stay in the Luftwaffe. Göering made it clear, that no further dispensation from the Füherbefehl would be made.

Denmark gained allied status late in the war after the democratically elected Danish Government refused further cooperation with the German occupiers and the small Danish resistance movement gained enough momentum to be noted in London - Stalin was understandably very reluctant to let Denmark join the club.

Lars

[Yves Marino]

What do you exactly mean with "allied nations"? There were danish, swedish, french, russian even 1 brazilian pilot by the Luftwaffe and their motives were completely different.If you use German language I can give you a name of a realy good book about the foreign personal by Luftwaffe.

[Sergio Luis dos Santos]

Originally Posted by Yves Marino

What do you exactly mean with "allied nations"? There were danish, swedish, french, russian even 1 brazilian pilot by the Luftwaffe and their motives were completely different.If you use German language I can give you a name of a realy good book about the foreign personal by Luftwaffe.

Hi Yves, in fact I could trace two Brazilian pilots in Luftwaffe:

http://www.mach2.hpg.ig.com.br/Mach2Egon.htm (Egon Albrecht) and

http://www.ipmscuritiba.com.br/materias/wolfgang.html (Wolfgang Ortmann)

Hugs.

[Leon]

Some Soviet pilots also did - i.e. S.T. Bychkov - 42, than 287 IAP. Hero of SU and vice commander of 482 IAP. Shot down at 11th December 1943. Than in december 1944 was formning 1 IAP of VVS KONR. Executed 4th November 1946.
Full info:
http://www.aces.boom.ru/all6/bychkov.htm

[Franek Grabowski]

Originally Posted by Sergio Luis dos Santos

Hi Yves, in fact I could trace two Brazilian pilots in Luftwaffe:

http://www.mach2.hpg.ig.com.br/Mach2Egon.htm (Egon Albrecht) and

http://www.ipmscuritiba.com.br/materias/wolfgang.html (Wolfgang Ortmann)

Hugs.

I would not call them Brasilians, rather Germans with Brasilian citizenship or place of birth. There is a big difference between nationality and citizenship.

[Sergio Luis dos Santos]

Originally Posted by Franek Grabowski

I would not call them Brasilians, rather Germans with Brasilian citizenship or place of birth. There is a big difference between nationality and citizenship.

Remember the only "original" Brazilians are the indians. Brasil was formed by diferent waves of imigrants, starting with Portuguese. So, both them were born in Brasil and fought as Brazilians in Luftwaffe. And, following your thoughts, several German soldiers were not German also.

[Ruy Horta]

Well he has a point since these would still be considered as Volksdeutschen, unlike for instance dutch volunteers who served with the Waffen SS.

[brewerjerry]

Hi All,
Many thanks for the replies,
My term 'allied nations' , maybe I should have used the term 'non axis nations' ? ( i.e. not german, italian, spanish, etc.)
Most interesting the reasons behind why there were so few, It is a subject that has suddenly un-explainably interested me.

Yves Marino,

'danish, swedish, french, russian brazilian '
this sounds most interesting, I would be most interested in the title of the book , although my german knowledge is very very basic.

I know nationality and birth place always brings 'interesting' discussions.
Again many thanks all for the replies.
Cheers
jerry

[Franek Grabowski]

Originally Posted by Sergio Luis dos Santos

Remember the only "original" Brazilians are the indians. Brasil was formed by diferent waves of imigrants, starting with Portuguese. So, both them were born in Brasil and fought as Brazilians in Luftwaffe. And, following your thoughts, several German soldiers were not German also.

Not exactly. PAF was a multinational force, there served eg. Americans, Chechs, Estonians, Slovaks, etc. I am even awared of a French airmen who choose to serve with Poles rather than in his native AF. It was clearly distinguished nationality and citizenship, so for example we had American Poles and American Americans enlisted.
Concerning German soldiers, you are absolutelly right. I have been personally talking with a one, who was a Polish citizen, who was a forced labour and then enlisted with a 10 years trial German citizenship. He was trained in Jutland together with some 100 other soldiers like him, only two of them signing Volksliste. Guess what they did when send to a front in Luxembourg.