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Old 30th July 2007, 01:07
Tom Kinnard Tom Kinnard is offline
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Cause of P-51 a F6 to crash 27September 1944

Lt. James Warenskjold 0669936, a pilot of the 15th Tactical Reconnaissance Squadron of the 10th Reconnaissance Group was flying his P51 on a mission near Metz, France, on 27 September 1944 and never returned. His a/c # was 42-103427 (MACR 9226) and was named "Chumps Chance".
Approximately 7 1/2 years later his Mother was advised that his body was found under the plane in a heavily wooded area about 20 miles East of Metz. Identification was established by the contents of a bill-fold, a part of a dog-tag, and an expert's study of bones recovered. It was also mentioned that the engine had been "salvaged".
The family has never been given any information about the cause of the plane to go down or any other rated info. Do know that his wingman had to return to base because he was having instrument problems.
I checked with the Air Force about MACR 9225 and was given very little info, most of it unreadable because of it being in poor condition.
If anyone has any info on this it would be most appreciated.
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Old 30th July 2007, 08:55
Matthias Radu Matthias Radu is offline
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Re: Cause of P-51 a F6 to crash 27September 1944

Hello Tom,

I found an entry in my database which could be a match. On the same day, a recce Mustang (labelled as F-6) had been shot-down by 3,7cm Flak in position near Oberkleinich, the aircraft crashed into a swampy area near Hochscheid, Bernkastel area, close to the Mosel river, pilot killed. This should have happened in the afternoon hours.

It is stated that the wingman already had aborted the mission, and that the wreck had been found in 1951. Source: "Vom Feindflug nicht zurückgekehrt", a book of AG Luftkriegsgeschichte Rheinland (a group dealing with the clarification of the fate of missing aircraft and crew in the greater Rhineland area).

The only thing which is not exactly matching is the distance from Metz, which seems to be a bit more than 20 miles, but still to the east.

http://www.viamichelin.de/viamicheli...ure=30/07/2007

(larger picture by clicking on the map with the left mouse button)

Hope that helps

Best regards

Matthias Radu

Last edited by Matthias Radu; 30th July 2007 at 10:00.
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Old 30th July 2007, 21:47
Stig Jarlevik Stig Jarlevik is offline
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Re: Cause of P-51 a F6 to crash 27September 1944

Hi All

Checking the book Patton's Eyes by Tom Ivie, there is a picture of the Mustang in question, coded 5M-W. No close up of the nose but the minimal handwritten markings does NOT look like Chumps Chance. The picture is said to have been taken in September 1944

According to Ivie, the pilot fell victim of vertigo and crashed into a hillside

On that day there was another F-6 from the same unit which was hit by AA-fire, that pilot going out by parachute.

This is NOT to say that Ivie is correct and Matthias wrong. Could just as likely be the other way round...

Cheers
Stig
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Old 30th July 2007, 23:09
Matthias Radu Matthias Radu is offline
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Re: Cause of P-51 a F6 to crash 27September 1944

Hi Stig,

thanks for pointing to the pic of 5M * W in Ivie's book, I missed that when looking this issue up in the morning. Anyway, compared to the drawing of "Chumps Chance" in the same book, when still coded 5M * AI, the style and position of the name is very similar. I think there is a good chance of 5M * W being "Chumps Chance" indeed.

What I do not know is if it was "Chumps Chance" which crashed at Hochscheid, but the description in Ivie's book as well as Tom's account might suggest that Warenskjold was the one crashing into the meadow at Hochscheid.

Oberkleinich (position of the Flak) and Hochscheid are next to each other (you can zoom-in at the map in the link). This claim of the Flak at Oberkleinich should have nothing to do with the second F-6 loss, being hit near Dieuze, south-east of Metz.

I assume that the cause of the loss of Warenskjold had not been established when the MACR was filed, because the wingman had already turned around and the claim of the Flak was probably not known to the US officials.

Best Regards

Matthias
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Old 31st July 2007, 01:59
Tom Kinnard Tom Kinnard is offline
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Re: Cause of P-51 a F6 to crash 27September 1944

Thanks Matthais,

This could be his AC>

FYI

His wingman said "Our mission that day was to reconnoiter a small railway network about 20 miles North of the City of Saarbrucken. Fact that the weather was very bad that day complicated things quite abit since the area we were to fly in was very hilly. We took off from Saint Dizier Airfield in France and took a course straight toward the objective. We flew from the beginning under a very low overcast and as we crossed the front line, which at that time ran along the Maselle River, it didn't appear that there would be any break ahead. We were about 16 miles fromt he target when I first noticed a definite mechanical failure in my plane. I called Lt Warenskjold and told him what had happened and that I must return to the base. Knowing the importance of the mission Lt Warenskjold instead of returning, decided to go on alone and accomplish as much as he could in spite of the weather." This was about 7Pm.
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Old 14th July 2019, 00:56
kaki3152 kaki3152 is offline
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Re: Cause of P-51 a F6 to crash 27September 1944

Long lost thread, but here's an interesting report by a German national that stated the airplane was shot down by German Fighters.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Warenskjold_P51_10RG_21er55.jpg (195.9 KB, 40 views)

Last edited by kaki3152; 14th July 2019 at 01:55.
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