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Old 10th March 2006, 17:33
Norbert Schuchbauer's Avatar
Norbert Schuchbauer Norbert Schuchbauer is offline
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Meaning of KU Bericht (Report)

Does anyone have any idea what a KU 327 Bericht entailed and what KU stands for? Also which signature they may be found in at the Bundesarchiv?

They most likely have to do with enemy aircraft crashes but I'm not 100% shure.

Regards,

Norbert
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Old 11th March 2006, 02:12
RodM RodM is offline
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Re: Meaning of KU Bericht (Report)

Hi Norbert,

the "KU" reports were among the Luftgau reports captured by the Allies at the end of the war. The "KU" designation, of German origin, refers to US Bombers. Similar reports exist for British bombers "KE", fighters "J" and there are other reports for the Middle-East "ME", Balkans/central Europe ("KSU"/"KSE") and of an unknown type "AV".

The original surviving KU reports, at NARA in the US, are folders containing signals and reports and even captured papers found on crew members. One of the reports associated with the KU files is the “Abschließende Meldung über Anfall von Luftwaffe-Feindgerät und gegnerisohen Flugzeugbesatzungen”, although I don't know if these exist for each file. The collection is not complete - The first surviving report (from the index) is KU 7 for a loss on the 12th Aug '43 and the last report is from 1945.

None of the surviving reports are at the Bundesarchiv. They are retained, for US aircraft, in the US (at NARA and available in RG 242, with a microfiche index in RG 92) and, for RAF aircraft, in the UK (reputedly on the MRES files held by the British MoD and off-limits to the public).

I attached some samples from a KU Report...

Cheers

Rod
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Old 11th March 2006, 06:31
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Re: Meaning of KU Bericht (Report)

Thank you Rod!
I thought my inquiry was such a stab in the dark I would never get a responce. This is more than I ever expected. Thank you so much for your reply.

Regards,

Norbert
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Old 11th March 2006, 06:37
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Re: Meaning of KU Bericht (Report)

You would not know were I could get info regarding KU 310 and 327.

Cheers,

Norbert
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Old 11th March 2006, 22:10
RodM RodM is offline
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Re: Meaning of KU Bericht (Report)

Hi Norbert,

probably the easiest thing to do is to either e-mail or write to NARA in the first instance, stating that you want a quote to photocopy the two KU files. Note however, if you live outside of the US, that this sort of enquiry takes time and in my own experience, my first request took around four months from initial enquiry to receipt of the photocopies. I recently hired a researcher to visit College Park and photograph the remaining files I needed, this proving to be much quicker...

The relevant contact info is:

e-mail - via the NARA website
http://www.archives.gov/contact/inquire-form.html


snail-mail -
National Archives and Records Administration,
8601 Adelphi Rd,
College Park, MD 20740-6001
UNITED STATES

In both cases, besides, quoting the KU report numbers, also state that these reports are a part of "RG 242 Captured Luftgaukommando Reports on crashed Allied Aircraft"



If you want to get a researcher to obtain the relevant copy, then the following link on the NARA website has a list of independant researchers who specialise in military archives:

http://www.archives.gov/research/hir.../military.html

Cheers

Rod
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Old 11th March 2006, 22:24
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Re: Meaning of KU Bericht (Report)

Rod,
thank you so much for the info. I will check it out. May I ask you for further guidance should I get stuck?

Regards,

Norbert
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Old 12th March 2006, 01:10
RodM RodM is offline
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Re: Meaning of KU Bericht (Report)

Hi Norbert,

no problem and good luck!

I'm not an expert on the reports by any stretch of the imagination but I've been actively working with them in relation to RAF Bomber losses in 1945 over the last year.

Following is a post I made on another board concerning the reports held at NARA. Since then, I've learnt that the Reports in British hands are held by the MoD in the UK, which are reputedly on the individual casualty files. I was informed by the RAF AHB that no index to the reports is known to exist.


"following is some general information for those not familar with the NARA Luftgau reports:

1. The various German Luftgau (a "ground-based" administrative area) prepared reports on all Allied aircraft that crashed in or near German-held territory.
2. Around 7,000 reports, in their original German language, are held by NARA (National Archives & Records Administration) in the United States. These are on paper and many have never been microfilmed. They are held in Record Group 242 under "Luftgaukommando Records Relating to Captured Allied Personnel" (the 'captured' is a bit of a misnomer as the reports also include KIA). It is interesting to note that these particular documents were NOT transferred back in to German custody, as most of the other captured documents have been over the last 30-40 years. It should also be noted that obviously, although reports were prepared for most, if not all, crashed Allied aircraft, the Luftwaffe managed to destroy a fair portion of their records in the closing days of the war (in addition to those destroyed by Allied bombing), therefore only reports for well less than half of all RAF/USAAF aircraft lost over German territory appear to survive....
3. An index, prepared shortly after the war, is available but only on microfiche in Record Group 92. This 'set' consists of 18 microfiche covering the period Sept '39 to the end of Mar '45. There are also some roughly translated sundry reports on the last microfiche, including one for an RAF Stirling.
4. What do the Luftgau Reports offer to the researcher? These reports contain information on casualties often not available elsewhere because of the unavilablity of all pertinent documents in British custody.For example:
- crash location
- crash time
- cause of loss
- sometimes whether a bomber was on the way to or returning from a target
- burial details of crew members including place and date
- capture details of PoWs including place and date
5. What's the downside? Firstly, a report only exists for (probably) less that half of all RAF aircraft lost over German territory. Secondly the index does not enable the exact identity of most aircraft to be established. Only by viewing a copy of the whole report can an identity be confirmed (via names of crew members mentioned)
6. From late 1942 onwards, increasingly the majority of the reports in the index are for USAAF losses. More on this is explained below under document types. However, I can confirm that there are a number of reports for RAF aircraft that do exist but are not in the index or at NARA. During a survey of around 250 RAAF casualty files for 1945, I found four references to reports not held by NARA. Extrapolate this figure across the board and it is possible that quite a number of reports for RAF aircraft are not held in the US....
7. There are several document types that can basically be defined by the reference/report number:
(a) xxxxxx (where x is a numeral) - these reports are referenced by a six figure number that corresponds to the microfilm frame number from a film supplied by the British to the Americans. NARA holds paper prints from this microfilm, the film itself is not available. These reports appear to relate to Luftgaukommando XI in northern Germany and, as such, only concern losses in this area. The British captured a substantial amount of documentation from LGK XI in the closing stages of the war. I can only presume that the original microfilm and/or reports are still locked away in Britain (these reports were not, to the best of my knowledge, returned to Germany). Although covering both British and American losses, almost all of the losses from 1939-42 originate from this source.
The first report in this series is frame number 101401 from 4/9/39 and the last frame number is 132744 from the 25/3/45 (thus there is around 31,000 pages for the period '39-'45).
(b) KU xxxx (where x is a numeral) - these reports concern USAAF bomber aircraft, primarily flying from the UK. Most of these particular types of report appear to have survived. The first report is KU 7 from the 12/8/43 and the last report is KU 3797 from 3/3/45 (although several earlier numbered reports are from a later period, including KU 3716 from 23/4/45 - the only Luftgau report past Mar 45 in the index)
(c) KE xxxx (where x is a numeral) - these reports concern RAF bomber aircraft (although some fighters are also present), primarily flying from the UK. Sadly, this archive is woefully incomplete as held by NARA. The only positive news is that a substantial number of further reorts may be held in Britain as mentioned in (4) above. The first report at NARA is KE 6250 from the 30/7/43 (where are the previous 6249!) and the last is KE 10399 from the 27/2/45 (some earler numbered reports are from Mar 45). An intereting point is that from report 10133 to 10399 (267 reports), NARA only holds 23, while the small number of RAAF cas files surveyed refer to a further 4 reports within this number range.
(d) ME xxxx (where x is a numeral) - these relate to both British and American losses in the Mediterranian and Italy. The first report is ME 24/43 89 from 10/1/43 and the last is ME 2963 from 6/3/45 (a Spitfire from 1435 Flight)
(e) AV xxxx/yy (where x is a numeral and yy is the year) - these are primarily for US aircraft although some British ones are included. This may be another fairly complete archive. The first report is AV 15/43 from 14/9/42 and the last is AV 2126/45 from 12/3/45.
(f) KSU xxxx / KSJU xxxx (where x is a numeral) - these relate to US and British losses in the Balkans and (I think) Czechoslovakia and Austria. I haven't noted the first but the last report held is KSU 2947 from 2/3/45. (g) J xxxx (where x is a numeral) - these reports mainly concern US and some RAF fighter losses. However, some bomber aircraft are also mentioned as well. The first report held is J 315 from 25/11/43 and the last is J 3192 from the 3/3/45."

Cheers

Rod
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Old 12th March 2006, 02:07
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Norbert Schuchbauer Norbert Schuchbauer is offline
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Re: Meaning of KU Bericht (Report)

Rod,
well I think I'm set. This is more than I ever expected. Again thanks for your effords to share your knowledge regarding this subject with me. I will send a message to NARA with an inquiry.

Regards,

Norbert
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Old 2nd November 2006, 10:09
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KE report August 1943, Peenemunde

Quote:
Originally Posted by RodM View Post
I'm not an expert on the reports by any stretch of the imagination but I've been actively working with them in relation to RAF Bomber losses in 1945 over the last year.
Hi Rod ... my name is Don Smith and I'm a fellow Kiwi ... in Wellington.

I am am trying to glean further information regarding the loss of my Uncle F/sgt L F English over Peenemunde on 17/18 August 1943 (RAF, 619 Squadron, Lancaster EE147).

I have a copy of a one page MRES form that I obtained from my Uncle's service records on file here in Wellington (was Molesworth St, now Trentham). Amongst other things it refers to "captured German documents now in our possession" to very briefly describe the crash scene and location. What I wouldn't give to have access to those documents!

It is more than possible that they may be KE reports as you describe them, and although most likely still held by the MRES (for what, another 10 years or so?) I guess there's a faint chance they might be in US hands.

I've left a similar message on another Board (RAF Commands I think it's called - something like that) but you've placed a lot more detail here so perhaps this is the better environment.

Could you please let me know how I can find out even if a valid report exists for my search. I would be enormously grateful and can offer up what I know in detail.

Many thanks, Don
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Old 2nd November 2006, 13:01
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Re: Meaning of KU Bericht (Report)

Hi Don,

from the index at NARA, I don't recall seeing any entries relating to the night of the 17/18 Aug '43.

Only the British MoD could tell you if a report exists. However, being a relative of the airman concerned, provided that you can obtain written permission from the eldest surviving next-of-kin, you can make a FOI Act request (even from NZ) for information pertaining to your uncle from MoD:

http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/FreedomOfInformation/

If you choose to make a request, be very specific about what you want, namely, copies of: (a) the MRES Investigating Officer's interim and final reports (b) any witness statements pertaining to the crash (c) any German documents relating to the crash.

They will most likely provide you with a written response asking you to complete and return a declaration to be signed by the nok before properly answering your enquiry.

Because of MoD's application of the FOI Act, any information they deem relating to another individual (i.e. another crew member), they will not release without additional nok permissions.

Besides the KE reports (KU reports were for US aircraft), many other documents could have been used by the MRES investigators - cemetery records, police and Stadt records etc.

Another avenue for you is to obtain details from the RCAF casualty file of P/O O A O'Leary RCAF, a member of your uncle's crew. This file will probably only contain info similar to the RNZAF PF file - i.e. correspondence passed on to the RCAF from the MRES via the Air Ministry Casualty branch. The RCAF files are with the Canadian National Archives (and in terms of Canadian privacy laws, if the individual concerned has been deceased for more than 20 years then there is no problem).

Cheers

Rod
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