Areal photo of crashed B-17 in Germany

[Rolfeb]

Hi All,

The B-17 K8-P of 398th Bomb Group made a belly landing in Germany dated April 4th 45 after hit by AA fire.
plane was damaged by app. 20 - 30% but 2 days later some P-38 destroyed the B-17 completely.
I assume a reconnaissance unit took some pics the day before and HQ decided to destroy the plane.
Any idea where I could search for the pics?

Thanks in advance
Rolf

[Chris Going]

Hello Rolf

I don't want to rain on your parade, but such a scenario is rather unlikely. As you might imagine, in April 1945 the B17 held few technical secrets for the Germans. Even supposing an allied reconnaissance aircraft had imaged the B17, and a first phase interpreter had noticed it, there was nothing to indicate that here was anything out of the ordinary. Far more likely is that a couple of days later some P38 pilots noticed it and simply shot it up. But its tempting to conclude ...post hoc ergo propter hoc.

Best


Chris

[Chris Goss]

You beat me to it. Why they would risk a PR sortie against a downed common bomber that late in the war is highly unlikely. More likely the P-38s stumbled across it-for example it happened over the Pas De Calais in 1941. Added to that the likelihood of photos still existing.......

[Col Bruggy]

Rolf,

Are you absolutely sure about the loss date (ie 4 April 1945)?

Col.

[Rolfeb]

Hi Col,

Thanks for questioning,
Yes, based on the MACR the date is correct.
Serial# was: 42-38664

And based on several eye withnesses the plane burned out 2 days later because of that attack.

[Col Bruggy]

Rolf,

602 BS/398 BG B-17G 43-38664 (K8-P), was lost on 11 April, 1945, hence my query.

http://www.398th.org/PDF/History/MAC...0411_Shirk.pdf

Col

[Rolfeb]

That is the plane and related MACR.
Rolf

[RSwank]

Slightly off topic, but this type of thing had happened before. We have a thread of a similar incident here:

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?p=116418

with links to the gun camera films on youtube.

In this case the pilots that did the shooting had been escorting the B-17.

[Rolfeb]

Sorry to come back to this topic.
It seems there is no evidence that 4 P-38 destroyed the B-17.
I did a lot of research already many years ago and the only evidence I have is the input of several eye witnesses.
Based on that 4 P-38 destroyed it at April 14th.
Thanks in advance
Rolf

[Alex Smart]

Hello All,
Just to confirm.
A/c serial as stated "42-38664" is incorrect.
The correct serial number was 43-38664 .
A/c side codes were as stated " K8-P".
Loss date was - 11th April 1945.
A/c said to have crashed Muhldorf, Germany.
Crew fates were: Kia 3, Pow 7.
P. F/O. Arthur C.Shirk - Pow.
CP. 2Lt.John F. Schmidt - Pow
N. F/O. Michael C. Ryan - Pow.
B. S/Sgt. John C. Bait Jr - Pow.
TT. Sgt. Frederick C. Windeler - Kia.
RO. Sgt. Robert L. Chism - Pow.
BT. Cpl. Frank A. Wright - Pow.
LWG. Sgt. Charles F. Wagner - Kia.
RWG. Sgt. John T. Coxey Jr - Pow.
TG. Sgt. Milton C. Ervin - Kia.
MACR was 13868.(56 pages).

See the Joe Baugher site, 42-38663 and 42-38664 were a cancelled contract for Culver PQ-8-CL Cadet's.

Alex