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Old 12th February 2010, 16:30
Fredo Hara Fredo Hara is offline
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Help : Erkennungsmarke questions

Hello,

I put myself several questions about the Erkennungsmarke (or Dog Tag) : is there a logical in the attribution of the Erkennungsmarke? If we take the example of 3 fighter pilots. The Erkennungsmarke could be for example:
-Werner : 65177 / 2
-Hans : 65177 / 6
-Otto : 65177 /14

First question: Is 65177 corresponds to a Jagdgeschwader, a Staffel or a Gruppe ? The fact that ours 3 Erkennungsmarke begin all with 65177 means that our 3 pilots were affected in the same Staffel, gruppe or JG?

Second question: Each time a pilot transferred in an other unit (JG, Staffel or Gruppe), was a new Erkennungsmarke given to him, or did he preserved his own Erkennungsmarke during all his career ?

Third question : did the Erkennungsmarke given to a pilot when he entered in Jagdschule or only in a active unit (Jagdgeschwader, Staffel ou Gruppe)?

Fourth question: Concerning the last number of the Erkennungsmarke , is it corresponds to something? If we take ours 3 pilots, is it means that Werner arrived before Hans and Otto in the same unit or there is an another logical?

Thanks for your help !
Fredo
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Old 12th February 2010, 18:17
RT RT is offline
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Re: Help : Erkennungsmarke questions

put myself several questions about the Erkennungsmarke (or Dog Tag) : is there a logical in the attribution of the Erkennungsmarke? If we take the example of 3 fighter pilots. The Erkennungsmarke could be for example:
-Werner : 65177 / 2
-Hans : 65177 / 6
-Otto : 65177 /14

First question: Is 65177 corresponds to a Jagdgeschwader, a Staffel or a Gruppe ? The fact that ours 3 Erkennungsmarke begin all with 65177 means that our 3 pilots were affected in the same Staffel, gruppe or JG?
Number given for each staffel for each unit
JG8 1.St. 65177 2.St. 65178..., a number for the Stab Staffel I don't think

Second question: Each time a pilot transferred in an other unit (JG, Staffel or Gruppe), was a new Erkennungsmarke given to him, or did he preserved his own Erkennungsmarke during all his career ?
It seems that they hv only one, like a surname

Third question : did the Erkennungsmarke given to a pilot when he entered in Jagdschule or only in a active unit (Jagdgeschwader, Staffel ou Gruppe)?
They hv one 'temporary" during their "Ausbildung" but built with the unit name FAR13+Figure or Art.rg.+Figure, after beg. of war they get one when they reach front units, later on the units like JGr.West, Süd.. give one also

Fourth question: Concerning the last number of the Erkennungsmarke , is it corresponds to something? If we take ours 3 pilots, is it means that Werner arrived before Hans and Otto in the same unit or there is an another logical?
Norm. 1 is for the sta.ka. Gr.kdr etc. after 2,3,4,5... are given at first when the system was built by age , the elder get the 2 , second elder the 3 etc... when a new one arrive in the unit he received the next figure not used in the row, I suppose



Fifth question, my own, letters are added a/b/c/d..possibly because they don't want to go higher than a given figure 199 or 299 or 999 ???

Rémi

Nota bene, not read in the books just my experience
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Old 12th February 2010, 23:19
edwest edwest is offline
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Re: Help : Erkennungsmarke questions

Here is a book:

http://cgi.ebay.com/WWII-German-Mili...10151010r13959


I'm not suggesting people buy it. Perhaps a used copy could be picked up. In any case, just an idea.



Usual disclaimer,
Ed
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Old 13th February 2010, 15:22
Fredo Hara Fredo Hara is offline
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Re: Help : Erkennungsmarke questions

Thank you Ed for the links !
And thank you Rémi for your complete answer !
I think Rémi that your experience is better than a book : You have confirm my doubt ! Just a last question : where i can find (books, Web...) a list of Erkennungsmarke which give the Staffel?
Merci beaucoup
Fredo
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Old 13th February 2010, 16:13
hanshauprich hanshauprich is offline
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Re: Help : Erkennungsmarke questions

65177 is an so called MOB-Nummer. This can be an Flying Unit, but also an Fallschirmjäger-Regiment or even an SHD-Unit. Without the Code-List you have no chance to get information about the unit. I have this lists, and I will take a look on it. If it is an Jagdgeschwader, Kampfgeschwader or something it can stand for the hole Unit or even an Gruppe or Staffel. The 2, 6, 4(if real) are the socalled personelnumber of the Airman etc.
Those numbers run up to more then 500 or so especialy by Fallschirmjäger-Einheiten.
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Old 13th February 2010, 17:14
karl lusink karl lusink is offline
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Re: Help : Erkennungsmarke questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by hanshauprich View Post
65177 is an so called MOB-Nummer. This can be an Flying Unit, but also an Fallschirmjäger-Regiment or even an SHD-Unit. Without the Code-List you have no chance to get information about the unit. I have this lists, and I will take a look on it. If it is an Jagdgeschwader, Kampfgeschwader or something it can stand for the hole Unit or even an Gruppe or Staffel. The 2, 6, 4(if real) are the socalled personelnumber of the Airman etc.
Those numbers run up to more then 500 or so especialy by Fallschirmjäger-Einheiten.
Hello
MOB number B 65177 = 5./JG 51

Regards
Karl Lusink
ARGA
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Old 15th February 2010, 22:03
Fredo Hara Fredo Hara is offline
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Re: Help : Erkennungsmarke questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by hanshauprich View Post
65177 is an so called MOB-Nummer. This can be an Flying Unit, but also an Fallschirmjäger-Regiment or even an SHD-Unit. Without the Code-List you have no chance to get information about the unit. I have this lists, and I will take a look on it. If it is an Jagdgeschwader, Kampfgeschwader or something it can stand for the hole Unit or even an Gruppe or Staffel. The 2, 6, 4(if real) are the socalled personelnumber of the Airman etc.
Those numbers run up to more then 500 or so especialy by Fallschirmjäger-Einheiten.
Thank you Karl, and thank you all for your Help.
Hanshauprich, happy to know that you have a list. I will probably ask in the futur which unit i am looking for, with the Code-list ! And the personelnumber i take on my example are not real, sorry.
Fredo
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Old 19th March 2010, 18:27
Fredo Hara Fredo Hara is offline
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Re: Help : Erkennungsmarke questions

Bonjour,
So, I propose some Mob-nummer : If someone have the kindness to identify the Luftwaffe Unit behind these :

53559
53931
53539
59741

Do you if the WAST or another organism have a database of Erkennungsmarken ? For example, if I give the Erk.Mark. 53559/12, is it easy to know who is the person?

Thanks so much for your help.
Fredo
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Old 19th March 2010, 19:12
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Kaczmarek Kaczmarek is offline
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Re: Help : Erkennungsmarke questions

Hi Fredo,

at first, the WASt give no informations to a enquiry with a dogtag number about any persons ! You can forget this.

53559 = Ausbildungstaffel/Erg.J.Gr. 2
53931 = Stabszug J.G. 103
53539 = A-C III./J.G. 52
59741 = 3./Erg.J.Gr. Ost, 2./J.Gr. West, 3./J.Gr. Nord

The dogtag number says not that the person hold by the unit the complete time. For example, the young pilots receive his dogtags at Erg. JGr. or JGr. in preparation for your missions at JG´s. These dogtags usually kept her until his death or the end of the war. Some units changed the dogtags to own of the new unit.

Kaczmarek
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Old 19th March 2010, 22:18
Fredo Hara Fredo Hara is offline
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Re: Help : Erkennungsmarke questions

Thanks so much Kaczmarek !
Fredo
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