Hermann Graf's Mosquito's

[Johannes]

Hi Guys

Hermann Graf has long since been credited with 212 victories. I believe only 206 confirmed including 202 Russian aircraft. I have just come across a document that states total claims 252, of which 16 US heavy bombers, and two Mosquito's. Obviously many were unconfirmed, but also that the Mosquito's though undated had some comments.

1. Mosquito over Groningen(Netherlands) at 12000 metres........this leads me to believe it was a reconnaissance aircraft, but still very,very high.

2. Mosquito which force-landed in Switzerland!!!!........very strange, certainly Graf couldn't follow it to Switzerland due to the Bf109's range, and he would/should have been stationed in Northern Europe/Germany, I think(but what do I know) Also elsewhere I found a document(non official as handwritten) which states 13.05 Mosquito over Bodensee. But don't know if this means 13th May 1944 or 13.05 hrs.

These accounts would have been the Autumn of 1943 through the Winter of 1943/44.

Unlike US heavies Mosquito's were a rare lose. Can anybody attribute any Mosquito losses to these stories?

Grateful for any help.

Kind Regards

Johannes

[Johannes]

Actually as Graf was injured on 29th March 1944, this could be referring to 1943?

Johannes

[Johannes]

Have checked Graf's units, and he was with JG 50 (Hohen-JG) from March 1943 until august/September 1943. Seems JG 50 was a high altitude unit thus his claim would appear to have been on 13th May 1943.

Johannes

[Alex Smart]

Hello,
This is what I found -

Only Mosquito loss between 13th and 14th that I could find.

12 Mosquito's on a raid to Berlin, onlly one loss.

Mosquito Mk B.IV DK302 of 139 (Jamaica) Squadron "XD-S".
Crew were -
F/O (P). Stanley WILKINSON 109372 of Winnington, Cheshire
and
P/O (N) Alan H EADES 136523 of Bromsgrove, Worcestershire.
Both remembered on the Runnymede Memorial Panel's 130/1.

Alex

[Col Bruggy]

Hello,

A possibility:

14 May 1943 - 540 Squadron.

Flight Sergeant R. B. Shepherd* and Flight Sergeant H. W. Evans* in Mosquito PR IV DZ523 took off at 1100 hours for D/A (damage assessment) of Pilsen but failed to return.

See:
RAF Benson A Diary of Wartime Losses.
Ottaway,Reginald H.
Andover:Speedman Press.2010.
pp.77-8

*
656280 F/Sgt (Pilot) Reginald Bernard SHEPHERD RAFVR + Buried Longuyon Churchyard, France.

Ottaway states ,on p.78: "Since no details could be found for either the death or the imprisonment of Flight Sergeant Evans it is likely that he escaped and returned to the United Kingdom."

Col.

[Alex Smart]

Hello Col,
I omitted DZ523 as it is listed as 14th and crashed in France ?
Were we guided to beleive the event was over Germany or did I missunderstand again ?
Age perhaps over running me.
Evans was an evader I think.
Alex

[Col Bruggy]

Alex,

Tend to agree. No.540 Sqn Mosquito DZ523 a non-starter for Graf's claim:

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/archiv...p?t-22329.html

Col.

[Johannes]

Hi Guys

Thanks for the investigations.

I would assume that that on 13th May 1943 was over Germany.....southern Germany. But I think that JG 50 would be in Northern or central Germany at that time? As Mosquito force-landed in Switzerland I would think this was the defining fact. If it was Graf who determined it force-landed then he must of been close-by, or did air-control establish a force-landing by listening to radiowaves. I would also have thought if this story is true that the British would be wanting this aircraft destroyed........for a large sum of money naturally!!!

Regarding the second Mosquito over Groningen, Netherlands at 12000 metres. I'm assuming this would be a recon aircraft. But, if around the same time as the first, they are so very far apart! Graf makes an unconfirmed claim for a B-17 on 30th May 1943. The first confirmed JG 50 claim was on 6th September 1943 4 x B-17, the last on 14th October 1943 6 x B-17 all over central Germany! Strangely again Graf's were with 6./JG 50, you would have thought the Stabst./JG 50 but not.

It is said that Graf was not the most honest of claimers anyway. But his wingman Alfred Grislawski who joined him is JG 50 was honest. This seems to be bourn-out in the fact that Graf had difficulty confirming claims in the West where crash-sites were investigated! Grislawski had no such problems, yet this two flew together often. Perhaps Graf was just not that good in the west.

Thanks again

Kind Regards

Johannes

[Johannes]

Hi Guys

The Groningen Mosquito claim is alleged to have taken place in June 1943, which makes it pre JG 50. Also having read-up a bit on JG 50 I believe Graf's 6./JG 50 claims can be explained by the actual lack of aircraft for this unit.......perhaps he just flew with this unit, perhaps also prior to JG 50 he was still banned from flying, so made no official claim!
Seems that JG 50 was itself formed to actually attack Mosquito bombers, and it's Bf109's were specially adapted for high altitude, and higher speed. However they only had success against U.S heavies. The personal were former colleagues of Graf.

As Grislawski has been identified as a honest claimer, I wonder how Graf was not? Grislawski seemed to have been with Graf throughout his successful period. I wonder if his pattern of claims looking suspect has incurred the dis-honest status without actual scrutiny of Russian losses?

Kind Regards

Johannes

[udf_00]

Switzerland :
http://raf.durham-light-infantry.ch/...itzerland/1942
24. August 1942 14:03/ Bern-Belp - Mosquito Mk. IV, DK.310, 1.PRU code L°YG

http://raf.durham-light-infantry.ch/...itzerland/1944
7. April 1944 00:12 / Uttwil (Bodensee) - Mosquito Mk. VI, NS.875, code UP°R, 605 Squadron
30. September 1944 14:37 / Volketswil - Mosquito FB.Mk. VI, PZ.440, code P3°-, 515 Squadron
30. September 1944 15:23 / Dübendorf - Mosquito FB.Mk. VI, NS.993, code P3°T, 515 Squadron

Netherlands
Google for :
SGLO-Verlieslijst-T-1939tm1945-versie-06-2014-03-14-sorted-by-unit.pdf
SGLO-Verlieslijst-T-1939tm1945-versie-06-2014-03-14-sorted-by-aircraft-and-PN.pdf
1.6 MB each.