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Allied and Soviet Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the Air Forces of the Western Allies and the Soviet Union.

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  #1  
Old 25th August 2005, 05:40
Alex Smart Alex Smart is offline
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Russian B24 photo thanks to Ed West & eBay

Hello,

I saw but now cannot find, a photo on the other page of a B24 of the USSR.

Thanks to Ed West and his eBay links.

I do beleive that the photo is of B24 H-30-FO serial number 42-95342 of the 451st Bomber Group 724th Bomber Squadron that was lost on Mission 244 to Linz , Austria on the 25th April 1945.

MACR13991.

IIRC that B24 was carring the a/c in Squadron number "29", she had some 66 missions under her belt when she was lost due to flak.

If so then I wonder what became of her crew ?

A second , camofalged B24 with red star can also be seen in the same photo.

Night

Alex
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Old 25th August 2005, 11:22
HGabor HGabor is offline
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Re: Russian B24 photo thanks to Ed West & eBay

Hi Alex,

no, it was a B-24J-10-FO plane ('Marjorie H'), S/N: 42-51610, #29 of the 461st BG (not the 451st), which landed on the Zombor (now Sombor) airfield, piloted by Lawrence O. Woodruff. As far as I know they returned to Italy.

Gabor
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Old 27th August 2005, 05:14
Alex Smart Alex Smart is offline
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Thumbs up Re: Russian B24 photo thanks to Ed West & eBay

Hi gabor,

When you say returned to Italy, did you mean the crew or both crew and aircraft ?

Thanks.

Alex
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Old 27th August 2005, 13:47
HGabor HGabor is offline
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Re: Russian B24 photo thanks to Ed West & eBay

Hi Alex,

only the crew returned to Italy. Libs: 42-51610, 44-41065 and 42-51990 were handed over by the 17. Soviet AF to the 45. GvBAD on March 30, 1945 as the first planes of the new 45. Soviet (test) GvBAD. The 203. Soviet ('Orlov') GvBAP used the B-24s, the 890. GvBAP used the B-17s. The soviet pilots preferred the B-17s, and called them '4 engined UT-2'. Many B-24s were collected from Hungary, Rumania and even Poland to these BAPs for test purposes. In 1948 more B-24s of the 203. GvBAP were sent to Kazany (22. Factory) for the crew training of the new Tu-4 heavy bombers (The Soviet 'supercopies' of the B-29). For this the B-24 was better training plane than the B-17, due to their nose wheel. The last Soviet B-24s remained in service as late as the early '50s. I hope this helps.

Gabor
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  #5  
Old 27th August 2005, 16:50
Carl-Fredrik Geust Carl-Fredrik Geust is offline
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Re: Russian B24 photo thanks to Ed West & eBay

Just a small correction to Gabor´s initiated message:

- 45 TBAD (Heavy Bomber Aviation Division) and 890 TBAP (Heavy Bomber Aviation Regiment) were never Guards units, while the bomber regiment numbered 203 was indeed a Guards unit (ex 25 GAP of ADD, numbering changed DEcember 26, 1944 after ADD was transformed into 18th Air Army). 25 GAP was in its turn elevated to Guards status from ADD-regiments 746 OAP and 412 TBAP on September 18, 1943.

- 45 TBAP consisted of two equipped regiments (initially equipped with Pe-8): 890 TBAP (in 1945-46 to get B-17s) and 203 GTBAP (which as told got the B-24s).
Carl
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Old 28th August 2005, 00:11
Alex Smart Alex Smart is offline
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Re: Russian B24 photo thanks to Ed West & eBay

Hello Gabor & Carl,

What ever B24 the photo shows it is still a good photo and one of a very few that I have seen of B24's in Soviet use.

Now that Carl has entered into the discussion may I ask his opinion on the following -

B24L-15-CO serial 44-49937, and B24M-1-FO that apear in his list in Red Stars 4. '937 as Disassembled for spares.

The former is reported to have been at Walnut Ridge Ark, in January of 1946 while the latter is reported to have been at Kingman Arz in January of 1946.
How is this?

The thirty that he lists, what became of their crews, were they all returned How many were killed?
As I am not able to aquire all 30 MACRs to attain crew names etc.

Thank you both for your exelent work.

Alex
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Old 28th August 2005, 10:33
Carl-Fredrik Geust Carl-Fredrik Geust is offline
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Re: Russian B24 photo thanks to Ed West & eBay

Alex,
At this moment I have no access to my reference literature, so I have to try to answer out of memory.
The lists of B-17 and B-24 serial numbers in RS 4 are based primarily on a unique Russian article (including a list of serial numbers, and published some 10-12 years ago) about the use of these bombers (which were never officially supplied to USSR), completed (and cross-checked when possible) with additional material from various sources. Unfortunately I had at that time no possibility to check the list against US data about the ultimate fate of all aircraft.

My explanation for your questions are:

- there are either some misprints in the original Russian lists, OR:

- the aircraft explicitely mentioned were in fact RETURNED TO THE AMERICANS in 1945-1946 (possibly disassembled). It is a well known fact that a number of US Lend-lease vessels supplied to the Soviet Navy were returned in the late 1940s, and a big amount of aircraft, trucks and tanks were destroyed under US control (or reported to have been destroyed...) at the same time. Thus I do not consider it impossible that US authorities required the return of big bombers known to have force-landed in Soviet held territory, especially after the interned crews were able to return (see adjacent post by Ed West about interned crews! BTW I highly recommend the book referred to which - if I remember correcly - also gives some serial numbers of interned bombers).

May be someone from our community with access to US archives could check the validity of my assumption?
Carl
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Old 31st August 2005, 02:08
Alex Smart Alex Smart is offline
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Re: Russian B24 photo thanks to Ed West & eBay

Hello Carl-Fredrik,

Thank you for your reply.

I for one am glad to have your book Red Stars vol 4 .

There is a wealth of detail and many photographs within.

I also have your written update that you so kindly sent to me .

If pocket money will allow, I may buy the book named by Ed West , that is if it is still available here in the UK.

Thank you .

Alex
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Old 17th October 2007, 05:11
cubflyer cubflyer is offline
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Re: Russian B24 photo thanks to Ed West & eBay

Quote:
Originally Posted by HGabor View Post
Hi Alex,

no, it was a B-24J-10-FO plane ('Marjorie H'), S/N: 42-51610, #29 of the 461st BG (not the 451st), which landed on the Zombor (now Sombor) airfield, piloted by Lawrence O. Woodruff. As far as I know they returned to Italy.

Gabor
Hello HGabor,
My name is James Carter, and I was doing a "google" search on the aircraft that my father was a crew member on during WWII. He was on the "Marjorie H" when it crashed.
I take it, from this forum thread, that there were pictures of this plane after it crashed, and also I take it that the Russians were flying it. Do you know where I can get a look at this picture?
Thanks
Jim
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Old 31st October 2007, 07:17
Rick Quesnel Rick Quesnel is offline
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Re: Russian B24 photo thanks to Ed West & eBay

Alex, I have sent you a private message. Did you recieve it and if not please try.
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