FAA Role in the Pacific.?

[Frank Olynyk]

Graham,
The last FAA claims, on August 15, 1945, by 887 and 890 Seafires, and and 820 Sqn Avenger, are at 0545. The last USN claim on that date is at 1400, There is a USN claim at 0540, and again at 0545, and starting at 0640 (until 1400) there are claims for 25/2/4 victories. There is also an uncredited claim by a P-61 (chasing an Oscar into the water) at about 1900 that evening. (I suspect it is uncredited more because "the war was over"; it is not anecdotal, as there is a combat report, and reference to it in the Okinawa Air Defense daily report).

Frank.

[Graham Boak]

I did only mean the last FAA fight - however, the Russians were tangling with the Japanese later still.

[Franek Grabowski]

For most part of the war, RAF ETO pilots had a total of 600+ hrs before entering the combat. It is a little bit more than 450 hrs.
Concerning Seafire, it was mostly used in Europe, because US types were considered no match for Messerschmitts and Focke Wulfs. Therefore the number of credited victories seems not an argument when discussing quality of aircraft.

[Graham Boak]

It is certainly untrue that the FAA Corsairs and Hellcats were thought unable to cope with Luftwaffe fighters. It is more the point that the US fighters were mainly used on the fleet carriers, and these saw few operations in Europe in the period (only very late in the war) when the US fighters were available in significant numbers. The few combats that did take place, mainly over Norway, suggest they managed perfectly well enough. USN Hellcats clashed successfully with Luftwaffe Fw 190s in operation Dragoon, the invasion of the south of France.

Personally, I would accept that the heavier USN fighters do seem to be slightly inferior to the Fw 190, if not the Bf 109G, but not sufficiently so as to make any great combat difference given average pilots on both sides.

[Franek Grabowski]

I believe the bible provides extract from a report clearly stating only Seafire could match with German fighters.

[Nick Beale]

Originally Posted by Graham Boak

USN Hellcats clashed successfully with Luftwaffe Fw 190s in operation Dragoon, the invasion of the south of France.

USN units involved, dates, places, times?

There were precious few Fw 190s there to shoot at and the only USN claims I was aware of during DRAGOON were by VO-1 and VF-74 against He 111s, Ju 88s and Ju 52s.

I'm always happy to add to what's on my website, so you've got my curiosity going now.

[Graham Boak]

Given that the Seafire was only an overweight Spitfire Mk.V with a low-rated engine, some doubt must be cast on such a simply-expressed opinion. At very low level the aircraft should not be under-rated, as proved in the BPF's CAP mission (trying to drag the discussion back to the original point!).

Perhaps the most critical judgement that can be made on the USN fighters is that they were not much more superior to the Seafire, given their later design period and much greater power. However, some of this has to be credited to the specifically naval requirements. The need for a big wing does reduce the top speed, but improves manoeuvrability. The combination of a big wing and a big engine is a fairly good recipe for a fighter, although small size and light weight often gives better point performance numbers. The lighter weight of a landbased fighter will provide an advantage - but so will a 2000hp R2800!

In mid/late 1930s terms, that's exactly what a Spitfire was - big wing and big engine. But for the early 1940s a Griffon was needed - to my mind the big mistake of the Admiralty was not the second man in the Firefly but that the engine would have been better employed in Seafires....but that is being even more digressive. Sorry.

Edit after crossposting: apologies, Nick, I thought that they did make claims against Fw190s in an encounter during Dragoon.

[Frank Olynyk]

Nick,
The unit designation was VOF-1 not VO-1. It became VOC-1 when it moved to the Pacific.

Frank.

[R Leonard]

And no, neither VOF-1 nor VF-74 encountered any German fighters in Operation Dragoon, this the only USN F6F combat operations in the the ETO.

There were no encounters between FAA F4Us and German fighters, though FAA F4Us served as high cover in the Operation Mascot strikes on Tirpitz. USN F4U squadrons only saw combat action in the Pacific theaters.

The only encounter, fighters-vs-fighters, involving F6Fs and German adversaries, of which I am aware, occurred on 8 May 1944. F6F's from the Fleet Air Arm's No. 800 Squadron (Lieut Comdr SJ Hall, DSC, RN), off HMS Emperor, while escorting a flight of Barracudas was attacked by a mixed group of Me 109's and FW 190's. Two F6F's were lost, one, probably, to anti-aircraft fire (one source indicates that both F6Fs were lost in a mid-air collision, not to any German fire of any kind); the Germans lost 2 Me 109's and one FW 190. The FW 190 was claimed by Sub-Lieut Ritchie. Luftwaffe losses in the area for this date were noted as three 109G’s, # 14697 (Ofw Otto) and #10347 (Uffz Brettin) both from 10/JG5, and another from 8/JG5 # unknown piloted by Fw Berger; there no record of an FW 190 loss. On the Luftwaffe side, Uffz Hallstick claimed two F6Fs and Ltn Prenzler claimed one.

There was at least one other instance of FM-2 operating off HMS Searcher going up against Me 109Gs in March 1945, being bounced by the Germans while escorting a TBM strike, and apparently coming out of the fracas in better shape than their German adversaries.

As has been noted, encounters were few, certainly not enough to provide data for any sort of statistcally based conclusion, but annecdotally, Hellcats and the Wildcats tended to come off well against their German opponents.

Rich