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  #1  
Old 1st July 2022, 09:02
focusfocus focusfocus is offline
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VF 2 claims :battle of Coal Sea

Hello

On what date (7 or 8 ) and what type (Zero,Kate,Val) their claims?

Paul Ramsey=3 or 4?
Edward Sellstrom=3
Albert Vorse=2
John Bain=1
Willard Eder=1
Robert Morgan=1

Best Regards
Michel
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Old 1st July 2022, 15:43
twocee twocee is offline
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Re: VF 2 claims :battle of Coal Sea

According to Lundstrom's "First Team":

All on May 8, apart from 2 Zekes by Ramsey on the 7th.

The others, May 8, were,

Vorse: 1 Val 1 Zeke
Bain: 1 Zeke
Eder: 1 Zeke
Morgan: 1 Zeke
Sellstrom: 1 Kate, 2 Zekes
Ramsey: 1 Zeke
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Old 2nd July 2022, 10:22
focusfocus focusfocus is offline
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Re: VF 2 claims :battle of Coal Sea

Thank you
However,I have a recent source(Claringbould/Ingman) and according to them,Ramsey claimed 3 Zeke (in reality Kate of Zuikaku) on 7/5/42 around 5.30pm/6.00pm.

5 Kate of Zuikaku (claimed as Zeke) were shot down by VF 2 on 7/5/42

Paul Baker(1),William Wileman(1) and so Paul Ramsey(2 or 3 ?)....if it's only 2 by Ramsey,who claimed the last?

Michel
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Old 2nd July 2022, 12:59
twocee twocee is offline
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Re: VF 2 claims :battle of Coal Sea

According to Lundstrom, although the VF2 pilots on dusk CAP thought that their targets were Zekes, they were in fact B5N Kates.

Ramsey shot down 2, Baker 1 and Wileman1. The fifth was an aircraft under attack by Baker, which was seen to explode. He may have been caught in the blast, as he failed to return. Possibly he shot it down, or he may have collided with it.

Ramsey and Wileman also claimed 1 probable each.
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Old 2nd July 2022, 13:07
Stig Jarlevik Stig Jarlevik is offline
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Re: VF 2 claims :battle of Coal Sea

Michel

As per our late friend Frank Olynyk Lt Cdr Paul Hubert Ramsey made three claims on the 7th (at 1800H)
Two Type 00 VF as confirmed
One Type 00 VF as a probable

The same Ramsey also made two claims on the 8th (at 1113-1145H)
One Me-109 confirmed (Ens George Markham was involved but withdrew his claim)
One Me-109 as a probable

B Rgds
Stig

PS: Sorry George, you were faster than me....
Yes, what you say is also in Frank's lists
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Old 2nd July 2022, 15:47
twocee twocee is offline
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Re: VF 2 claims :battle of Coal Sea

No bother, Stig---I'm sure that you know a lot more about air-to-air claims than me.

However, I took a look at VF-2's report for the 7th and this is what it said about Baker: "It is believed that Baker collided with an enemy Zero fighter during retirement from his attack and both crashed in flames on the water".
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Old 2nd July 2022, 16:16
Stig Jarlevik Stig Jarlevik is offline
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Re: VF 2 claims :battle of Coal Sea

Quote:
Originally Posted by twocee View Post
No bother, Stig---I'm sure that you know a lot more about air-to-air claims than me.

However, I took a look at VF-2's report for the 7th and this is what it said about Baker: "It is believed that Baker collided with an enemy Zero fighter during retirement from his attack and both crashed in flames on the water".
Not really George....

I suppose have a certain interest in claims vs losses.....

Interestingly Frank does mention one claim by Baker in the evening fight, but reading Lundstrom page
211 it does not seem to be the aircraft he later is supposed to have collided with.
At least Frank never gave Baker a second claim (victory) that day, as implied by Lundstrom.
I know too little about how the USN awarded victories in 1942 to know if this is a "glitch" in the system,
or if collisions did not work as a final claim....
Perhaps the evidence was considered to be too vague since not even Lundstrom gives Baker
a final second victory that day in his summary on page 218

Cheers
Stig
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