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  #1  
Old 9th March 2018, 18:12
Tim O. Tim O. is offline
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5./KG 1 Forced Landing, Russia 2nd August 1942

Hi all

I am currently researching a Flugbuch from 5./KG 1. I have an entry for 2nd August 1942 showing that Ju 88 V4+BC force-landed that day having been hit by Flak and attacked by three Russian fighters.

The aircraft was flown by Oberleutnant Oscar Müller and I believe others on board were Feldwebel Koltermann, Unteroffizier Höchst and Unteroffizier Beinstinge.

Does anyone have a copy of the loss report? I would very much like to get the first names of the NCOs and any information on whether injuries were sustained.

All help very much appreciated
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Tim O.

Looking for any information or documents relating to:
Alfred Schmittka 5./KG 54; Josef Harmeling 4.(Schlacht)/LG 2; Wilhelm Gaul 1./106, 2./906 & III./KG 40; Karl Müller I./KG 2; Werner Breese 5.(F)/122
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Old 9th March 2018, 18:51
Rottler Rottler is offline
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Re: 5./KG 1 Forced Landing, Russia 2nd August 1942

Hi Tim,

in the Gen.Qu. loss report from 4 August 1942 are different spellings of the names Höchst and Beinstinge, the pilot was Fw Koltermann, Oblt Müller is not listed:
2.8. Stab II./KG 1 Feindflug, Ort: Krasnoje-Selo, Ursache: Bauchlandung infolge Jägerbeschuss, Flugzeug verbrannt.
Ju 88 A-4 5826 100%
F Fw Alfred Koltermann verletzt
Bf Uffz Philipp Höschst verletzt
Bs Uffz Erwin Beinstingl vereletzt.

Perhaps the NVM can clarify this.

Regards
Leo
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Old 9th March 2018, 19:00
Tim O. Tim O. is offline
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Re: 5./KG 1 Forced Landing, Russia 2nd August 1942

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rottler View Post
Hi Tim,

in the Gen.Qu. loss report from 4 August 1942 are different spellings of the names Höchst and Beinstinge, the pilot was Fw Koltermann, Oblt Müller is not listed:
2.8. Stab II./KG 1 Feindflug, Ort: Krasnoje-Selo, Ursache: Bauchlandung infolge Jägerbeschuss, Flugzeug verbrannt.
Ju 88 A-4 5826 100%
F Fw Alfred Koltermann verletzt
Bf Uffz Philipp Höschst verletzt
Bs Uffz Erwin Beinstingl vereletzt.

Perhaps the NVM can clarify this.

Regards
Leo
Thank you Leo, that is excellent information. I assume Müller was not injured and therefore was not listed. I have no evidence (photographic or certificate) to suggest he was injured - he already had the Black Wound Badge for an injury received when baling out in 1940.

Your spellings look correct now that I re-read the handwriting in the Flugbuch so that also helps a lot too.

Many thanks
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Best wishes
Tim O.

Looking for any information or documents relating to:
Alfred Schmittka 5./KG 54; Josef Harmeling 4.(Schlacht)/LG 2; Wilhelm Gaul 1./106, 2./906 & III./KG 40; Karl Müller I./KG 2; Werner Breese 5.(F)/122
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Old 12th March 2018, 05:59
Kapper Kapper is offline
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Re: 5./KG 1 Forced Landing, Russia 2nd August 1942

Leo,

Are you sure it states Koltermann as the pilot?

This is a very experienced crew and this incident was likely their last mission together as a crew.

In the Ehrenliste’s for the Ehrenpokal the following is shown:

Ltn Oskar Müller Flugzeugführer 16.03.42
Fw Alfred Koltermann Bombenschütze 02.04.42
Uffz Philipp Höchst Bordfunker 30.03.42
Gefr Erwin Beinstingl Bordschütze 15.06.42

In the DKiG database – they are recorded as in the following:

Oblt Oskar Müller F 5./KG 1 11.05.42
Fw Alfred Koltermann Bs 5./KG 1 17.06.42
Uffz Philipp Höchst Bs 5./KG 1 04.08.42
Gefr Erwin Beinstingl Not listed - -

I note that in the DKiG database that Bs is for both Bombenschütze and Bordschütze. Höchst listed as Bs is a bit confusing in this one?

Furthermore, in the Russian website http://www.airwar.ru/history/av2ww/a...s2/kg1-42.html
Has the following:

Ff – not named
Bo – Fw A Koltermann
Bf – Uffz P Hoeschst
Bs – Uffz E Beistingl

To me it appears that Müller was the pilot, Koltermann the bomb-aimer, Höschst (Höchst?) the radio operator and Beinstingl the gunner!

Does anyone else have information to confirm crew positions?

Regards,

Craig…
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Old 12th March 2018, 17:01
Rottler Rottler is offline
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Re: 5./KG 1 Forced Landing, Russia 2nd August 1942

Hello Craig,

sorry that I have misread the function of Fw Koltermann. In the Gen.Qu. loss report he is listed as B (= Beobachter), not F (= Flugzeugführer).
In the Gen.Qu. loss reports the usual abbreviations for the functions of the crew members were
F = Flugzeugführer
B = Beobachter
Bf = Bordfunker
Bs = Bordschütze
Bm = Bordmechaniker.

In other publications we find
FF = Flugzeugführer
BO = Beobachter
BF = Bordfunker
BS = Bordschütze
BM = Bordmechaniker.

Regards
Leo
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Old 12th March 2018, 17:31
edNorth edNorth is offline
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Re: 5./KG 1 Forced Landing, Russia 2nd August 1942

BW = 1. Bordwart (Ground Mech/crew chief, travelling on)

Ju 88 A-4 088/5826 (5826 #26 ) photo on eBay 04.2015
- shows burned out wreck in long grass

Last edited by edNorth; 13th March 2018 at 02:58.
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  #7  
Old 12th March 2018, 23:33
Tim O. Tim O. is offline
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Re: 5./KG 1 Forced Landing, Russia 2nd August 1942

Thank you all

Excellent team work and I am confident in the final conclusions. Your time and effort is much appreciated.
__________________
Best wishes
Tim O.

Looking for any information or documents relating to:
Alfred Schmittka 5./KG 54; Josef Harmeling 4.(Schlacht)/LG 2; Wilhelm Gaul 1./106, 2./906 & III./KG 40; Karl Müller I./KG 2; Werner Breese 5.(F)/122
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