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  #1  
Old 12th March 2018, 21:48
focusfocus focusfocus is offline
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Paul Galland 31/10/42

Hi all

17° Abschuss for Paul Galland that day
after shot down 20 km W of Calais 18h15 by Spit.

According to D.Caldwell
one Boston (107Sq) Dixmuide/Comines

According to Prien and Co.
one spit 7km Dixmuide

Questions:
1) His 17° Abschuss:Boston or Spit??

2)He was shot down by whom? 91°Sqd ?

Thanks in advance

Michel
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  #2  
Old 12th March 2018, 22:07
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Chris Goss Chris Goss is offline
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Re: Paul Galland 31/10/42

91 Sqn claimed 5 destroyed and 122 Sqn one all at the same time
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Old 13th March 2018, 09:09
keith A keith A is offline
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Re: Paul Galland 31/10/42

A Boston is most often mentioned. His wingman claimed a Spitfire. The victor over Galland is often given as Demozay, Le Roux or a pilot from 91 who does not return. The circumstances of Galland's death indicate he was shot down by an experienced pilot who used cloud cover to make his attack.

"On the return flight Galland answered a call from a German pilot being attacked by a Spitfire. The Spitfire spotted Galland’s approach and pulled up into the cloud cover. Galland attempted to follow but stalled and had to dive away to regain speed. The Spitfire took the opportunity to dive from the clouds and shoot down Galland’s Fw 190 A-4 (WNr 2402) “Black 1”" (http://www.luftwaffe.cz/gallandp.html).

regards

Keith
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Old 13th March 2018, 09:12
keith A keith A is offline
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Re: Paul Galland 31/10/42

As you see from the website his last victim is a Boston of 107 Squadron piloted by PO H. Collings.
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Old 13th March 2018, 12:15
Laurent Rizzotti Laurent Rizzotti is offline
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Re: Paul Galland 31/10/42

The website is not up to date, even if here I believe it is true.

Galland's victory and death were 5 hours apart and related to two different actions.

Around noon, AFAIK, only low-level raiders operated over NW Europe: Bostons of 2 Group flying cloud-cover raids and Spitfires flying Rhubards in small groups. One Boston of 107 Sqn was shot down, reportedly by a Fw 190 (story is in the book "The Reich Intruders" by Martin Bowman) and two Spitfires of 340 Sqn were lost, reportedly to Flak. But I found a report (here: http://www.francaislibres.net/liste/...hp?index=73785) that the four Spitfires dispatched by 340 Sqn split into two pairs, and one pair disappeared after going towards the railway between Calais and Saint-Omer. They were SUPPOSED to have been shot down by Flak. One pilot is still missing but the other was captured and survived, so maybe he let a report telling what shot down him.

On the German side, two claims are known for this time period: a Spitfire at 1250 hrs by Obfw. Paul Kirstein of 2./JG 26 5 km westlich Etaples (his 3rd kill) and a Boston or a Spitfire at 1310 hrs by Lt. Paul Galland of 8./JG 26 at 1310 hrs 13.10 7 km southeast Dixmuiden (his 17th kill).

Kirstein's kill could have been the Spitfire IX BS535 of 340 Sqn flown by Lt Claude Helies, who is still missing and could have been shot down over the sea.

Galland's claim is over Belgium and the Boston crashed here, while both 340 Sqn losses are supposed to have been in or off France.

Mr Prien being a user of this forum may comment on why a Spitfire has been set in the JFV book for this claim.

As for who shot down Galland, his wingman, Fw. Johann Edmann of 8./JG 26, claimed to have shot down it just after the Spitfire pilot shot down Galland. Only two Spitfire pilots were shot down in this battle, Flg Off Gibbs of 91 Sqn (Spitfire Vb AD548) who was killed and Flg Off Galway of 453 Sqn (Spitfive Vb EN786) who was rescued by the Air Rescue Service in the Channel. As Galway did not claim any victory, if we believe Edmann, Gibbs should be the one who get Galland.

But Edmann's was one of 6 victories claimed by German pilots during this battle, for only two RAF losses, so actually the British pilot could have survived. Overclaiming was also on the British side, with exactly the same ratio, 6 Fw 190 claimed (five by 91 Sqn, one by 122) for two German losses.

Things who could check further:
1) were there ground witnesses for the downing of the Boston that may confirm it was shot down by Fw 190s ? Chorley says in his BCL book that details can be found in the Belgian book "Vermist Boven Vlaanderen", it may contain such witnesses reports.
2) does the surviving 340 Sqn pilot, Capitaine Chauvin, write a report describing how he was shot down ?
3) you can check RAF combat reports for this day to see if one describes an action comparable to what Caldwell describes in his book (ie getting out of cloud, shooting down a Fw 190, being attacked by the wingman).

Best regards
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Old 13th March 2018, 13:21
Laurent Rizzotti Laurent Rizzotti is offline
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Re: Paul Galland 31/10/42

See https://forum.keypublishing.com/show...-loss-Oct-1942

An user (sadly using an Internet pseudo) said he had a ground eyewitness report and Galland's service records, sent by his brother (the general).
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Old 13th March 2018, 15:28
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Re: Paul Galland 31/10/42

I have some different remarks:

If the microfilms are reliable (are they 100°??);

Ofw.Seeger 1 spit 12h08 (could be Lt Helies ) 340 French Sqd.
Ofw.Kierstein 1 spit 12h50 (could be Capt.Chauvin) 340 French Sqd.
Lt.Galland 1 Boston 13h20 (according to microfilm) 107° Sqd.
error of Mr.Prien for 1 spit.

Now a severe overclaiming by JG2 (not surprising!)

Lt.Wurmheller 1 spit 18h08
Ofw.Statmann 1 spit 18h09
Lt.Wurmheller 1 spit 18h12
Hpt.Bolz 1 spit 18h15
Fw.Edmann 1 spit 18h20

total 7 spits and not 6 for 3 spits lost and not 2:

F/O Ronald Gibbs 91°Sqd
F/O Galway 453°Sqd
Sgt Furlong 453°Sqd (BL923)

Demozay 2 Fw.190
Maridor 1 Fw.190
Le Roux 2 Fw.190
?? 1 Fw.190 122°Sqd

Lt.Galland lost
The second Fw.190 of 6/JG26 (7053) "lost"(20%) notlandung Saint Quentin,in view of the distance (Channell),doubtful following the same fight.

One thing is sure;a victory is removed at the score of Demozay and Le Roux after who shot down Galland? possible shared (1/4)

michel
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Old 14th March 2018, 07:30
Johannes Johannes is offline
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Re: Paul Galland 31/10/42

Hi Guys

Michel correct, Boston at 1310 hrs low altitude 0-100 metres. Also agree with JG 2 statement, Wurmheller in particular severe overclaimer, Seeger generally honest as almost all JG 26 pilots. Actually Wurmheller's claims were recorded as A.S.M and nicht in ordnung, as Stratmann's. Nothing wrong with any of the Galland brother claims.

Regards

Johannes
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