Trying to ID He111 piloted by Lt. Fischer FL in France about 15.5.40

[Larry Hickey]

Hello,

See attached photo that I'm trying to ID. A handwritten caption in German on the back says: "This is the He 111 of Lt.Fischer, which on 15.05.40 was shot down in France by fighters. He made a smoothly belly-landing. Both engines failed. Only the board engineer was wounded. Living means fighting." The "15" on the date was another number crossed out and with the "15" written over it.

Peter Cornwell has suggested that this may be:

"May 16, 1940: 1.(F)/121 Heinkel He111H-2. Believed shot down by F/L Lee and Sgt Allard of No. 85 Squadron near Tirlemont, east of Brussels, 5.00 p.m. BO Lt G. Fischer and crew baled out. Aircraft 100% write-off."

Further analysis of this 16 May listing suggests that this could be that incident. The prop blades indicate that both engines had stopped before it hit, which matches the caption. The pilot's name matches, and the date is only one day off the revised date listed on the back of the photo. Of course, at least the pilot didn't bail out and the caption says that this was in France, not Belgium. The lack of info in Peter's entry to me indicates considerable question about the circumstances and exact location of the loss.

So, can anyone come up with other photos of this FL or information that would allow us to identify the loss of Lt. Fischer's He111?

http://www.servimg.com/image_preview...=14&u=11993385

Regards,

[David Ransome]

Hi Larry,

My own info matches with Peter's and around that period, one week either side of the date, the only Lt. (Gunther) Fischer that I have who is associated with an aircraft loss or mishap is this one for this aircraft.

Regards,

David

[Pieter H]

Larry,

As far as I can see No 85 Sqn did not claim any He111's on May 16.
The more plausible match, as given in Victoires de la Chasse Francaise by Arnaud Gillet, is from GC III/1, who intercepted a lone He111 west of Bruxelles around 14.15 hours on May 16. The area where this happened was over Doornik/Tournai, but it is not said this is also the location where the a/c made its landing.
I don't have further details.

Regards, Pieter

[Peter Cornwell]

Hello Pieter,

Originally Posted by Pieter H

As far as I can see No 85 Sqn did not claim any He111's on May 16.

I don't know your sources for this statement, but John Foreman's RAF Fighter Command Victory Claims of WWII Part One (2003) lists no less than six claims for He111s filed by No.85 Squadron on May 16, 1940. Two of these were also reported in Brian Cull's Twelve Days in May (1995) so clearly some evidence of such contacts survives - a fact apparently further confirmed by Gillet's work on RAF victories which I do not currently hold. Unfortunately, owing to the loss of records, we will probably never know the full truth of the matter, but please be assured that my own version of events was not conjured out of thin air.

However, before we get too far ahead of ourselves, the priority here is to validate that photo caption.

[Larry Hickey]

Hello,

Thanks for your comments. We'll have to relook at the 85 SQ issue. We still don't know where this He111 came down, or if this is the aircraft in the photo that I posted. More research to be done here.

Regards,

[David Ransome]

Hi,

From memory I recall that before Peter (I think it was he) pinned it down to 85 Sqdn that there was doubt as to whether it was 85 or 87 Sqdn. Regarding the date of 15th or 16th I wonder whether there has been an error in recording or reading of the date in one or other primary records?

It would be good to pin this down further and to find out if Pieter's aircraft isn't the same one.

regards,

David

[robert]

Hi,

Gillet lists on 16.05.40 in his "Les Victories de l`Aviationde Chasse Britannique Vol.1" following claims for He 111 reported by 85 Sqn:
P/O M.G.H.Rawlinson He 111 PM
F/O A.B.Angus He 111 PM
F/L R.H.A.Lee He 111 16.30
Sgt G.Allard He 111 16.30

Regards

Robert