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Allied and Soviet Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the Air Forces of the Western Allies and the Soviet Union.

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  #1  
Old 18th May 2014, 09:18
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2 July 1944 losses of the shuttle mission FGs

HI all

I am not much into 8.AF. But I need to clarify some things and for that I need help with losses of 8.AF fighter groups on 2.jly 1944 over Hungary
I found out that these were losses
02.07.1944 42-106467 P51B-10-NA 6698&8527 8 352 486 Maj Andrews Kunszentmiklós 10 km, HU
02.07.1944 42-106857 P51B-15-NA 6697 8 352 486 2Lt Howell
02.07.1944 43-6650 P51B 6802&8526 8 4 336 2Lt Norris E Budapest, HU
02.07.1944 42-106650 P51B-10-NA 6798 8 4 334 2Lt Sharp Gödöll, HU
02.07.1944 43-6746 P51B 6801 8 4 334
02.07.1944 44-13402 P51D 6799 8 4 335 Capt. Stanford Pilisvörösvár, HU


Anyone can please fill in the gaps and possibly write the cause of the loss? I am looking mostly into unknown or fighters as a cause. Thank you

regards

Peter
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Old 18th May 2014, 14:17
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Re: 2 July 1944 losses of the shuttle mission FGs

Peter,
I sent you all the details.
Gabor
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Old 18th May 2014, 19:23
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Re: 2 July 1944 losses of the shuttle mission FGs

Thanks Gabor, much appreciated, but anyway info on cause of the loss is on most of the entries missing...I am looking for the info if the cause were fighters, especially twin engined, or flak or mech. failure...
Thanks
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Old 19th May 2014, 09:13
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Re: 2 July 1944 losses of the shuttle mission FGs

Thanks to members of TOCH, I was able to reduce the candidates...
Anyone can help me with MACRs No:6697, 6798, 6799 especially narrations and observations of enemy attacking or involved in air combat?? And/Or NMR for 4.FG and 352.FG for 2 July 1944?
Thank you!
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Old 20th May 2014, 20:02
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Re: 2 July 1944 losses of the shuttle mission FGs

Stanford at Pilisvörösvár, Csobánkai road was engine (mechanical) failure.
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Old 21st May 2014, 23:51
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Re: 2 July 1944 losses of the shuttle mission FGs

4th FG
Hofer at Mostar while strafing
Sharp at Budapest - 109s
Stanford at Budapest - unk - believed enemy air
Norris at Budapest - 109s

352nd FG
Andrew - mechanical failure near Adony
Howell - 109s near Budapest
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Old 22nd May 2014, 22:01
Dénes Bernád Dénes Bernád is offline
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Re: 2 July 1944 losses of the shuttle mission FGs

Quote:
Originally Posted by drgondog View Post
4th FG
Hofer at Mostar while strafing
Hofer was probably damaged in air combat by rookie Hungarian pilot, Flight Officer Leó Krizsevszky, who received an unconfirmed air victory. 'Kidd' Hofer then crashed en-route home near Mostar, former Yugoslavia.
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Old 23rd May 2014, 01:01
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Re: 2 July 1944 losses of the shuttle mission FGs

Herky!: The Memoirs of a Checkertail Ace
by Herschel H. Green
pp 96-97
2 July 1944 Mission to the Rakos Locomotive Depot at Budapest.
Claims 2-1-1, all Bf 109s.
Losses 2-0, mid-air collision.

1000 Destroyed: The Life and Times of the 4th Fighter Group
by Grover C. Hall Jr.
pp 311-312
Combat with Bf 109s.
Two P-51s were also damaged by Bf 109s and their pilots, Hively (lost control of his plane but recovered) and Siems, wounded.
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Old 22nd May 2014, 08:30
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Re: 2 July 1944 losses of the shuttle mission FGs

Thanks drgondog...So this narrows my search just for MACR or details of Staford's fate.
Did 4.FG met/observed the Me 410s in the air?
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Old 22nd May 2014, 21:56
Dénes Bernád Dénes Bernád is offline
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Re: 2 July 1944 losses of the shuttle mission FGs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Kassak View Post
Thanks drgondog...So this narrows my search just for MACR or details of Staford's fate.
1st Lt. G. Stanford fell to the guns of 1st Lt. G. Debrődy, Hungary's third ranking 'ace' pilot. Stanford ended up POW.

You can find details of this air battle and photos of Stanford's still smouldering Mustang wreck in vol. 2 of Hungarian Fighter Colours I co-authored, pages 359-360.
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