Help - looking for data I./JG 5 May 12, 44

[drgondog]

Thanks to prodding by Nigel Julian I am looking into the very real possibility that I./JG 5 was the first to engage in the Frankfurt area on May 12, 1944.

Looking at Tony Wood data, Krupinski 2./JG 5, is credited with a P-47 at 05 Ost/TS-6: 7000m at 1152, Jahn 3./JG 5 is credited with P-47 at 05 Ost/TS-69 4000m at 1155.

Caldwell has I./JG 5 based at Herzogenaurach and hitting the bomberstream closer to Fulda area then back toward Frankfurt.

If JG 5 actually engaged bombers near Fulda the time would have been closer to 1230 to 1240... if they took off at ~1120 then they could have arrived near Frankfurt in 1150 timeframe.

Can anyone help me reconstruct the engagement with the two P-47s in that area at that time?


Thank You

Bill Marshall

[Nick Hector]

Hi there Drgondog

In my attempts to match up the day's air combats, it has become fairly clear I/JG 5 claimed against the 56th FG and that Guenther Rall of II/JG 11 may well have claimed against them as well, just that I/JG 5's claims match up a lot more better. Details are: 62nd FS lost P-47D-10-RE 42-75162/LM-H of Lt. Jack E Greene. 63rd FS lost P-47D-6-RE 42-74750/UN-L "Lady Jane" of LtCol Preston Piper and P-47D-10-RE 42-75109/UN-W "Louisiana Pirate New Orleans" of Lt. Willard D Johnson. All named pilots POW.
I could be wrong, but to me Gefr. Lieberknecht's kill seems to best match up with the loss of "Lady Jane"

Nick

[Kaczmarek]

TS-6 is the Mannheim-Heidelberg area.

The a/c of 56th FG crashed as follows.

# 42-75162, 12.07, near Mannheim-Rheinau, Sunlicht factory KU(J) 1092
# 42-74750, 11.55, near Epfenbach 15 km ESE Heidelberg, KU(J) 1090
# 42-75109, 11.52, near Spechbach 15 km ESE Heidelberg, KU(J) 1091

Hope this helps,

Kaczmarek

[drgondog]

Thanks to you both. The data agrees with what I have. I am convinced that Krupinski and Jahn were the 109s that hit Zemke. JG 11 didn't get to the bomber stream until 1215 and Rall by his own account was flying high Cover to II./JG coming in from NE.

I would still like to dig into the operational profile of JG 5 that day but the places of the J-Reports contained in Piper/Johnson MACRs are Far too south and too early for the main clash with the 3rd BD. They were still 50 miles west of Frankfurt when the attack on Zemke occurred.

Two other factors - Rall's claim resides in the JG11 history but doesn't have a time, nor does Rall claim two P-47s, just one in the history.

Thank you again, this is just in time to make a correction in my book.


Bill Marshall

[Nick Hector]

Your book?
Do tell... does it focus on I/JG 5 as a unit or the combats of 12.5.44 or an even broader scope?

Nick

[Peglar]

Bill, some old Papers about the 12 May 1944. If you need them - send me an e-mail. Greetings Peglar

[drgondog]

Originally Posted by Nick Hector

Your book?
Do tell... does it focus on I/JG 5 as a unit or the combats of 12.5.44 or an even broader scope?

Nick

Nick - it is the history of the 355th Fg WWII, 355th TFW Vietnam, 355th FW Iraq/Afghanistan.

"Our Might Always - history of the 355th Fighter Group WWII - Volume I", Schiffer out next month. I have extensively researched many combats the 355th was engaged in and presented much of the LW order of battle in those missions.

Many folks on this and Luftwaffe Expertern as well as WWIIaircraft have helped patch the battles together.

[drgondog]

Originally Posted by Peglar

Bill, some old Papers about the 12 May 1944. If you need them - send me an e-mail. Greetings Peglar

Thank you Horst. The JG5 paragraph was very useful.

[Nick Hector]

Thanks for the reply, Bill

I wish every success for your book.

Nick

[drgondog]

One last question, por favor, what is the full name of Jahn?

Regards,

Bill