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Pre-WW2 Military and Naval Aviation Please use this forum to discuss Military and Naval Aviation before the Second World War.

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Old 21st October 2020, 16:06
musec04 musec04 is offline
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Re: Stunning German Photo Album

Hi Stig,


Truly, more information would be very desirable. Let me pass this by you, the date given reflects when pilots were trained by the flying school in question, specifically for the military. Prior to the date given, it’s just the flying school for the Manufacturer concerned founded at an earlier date.The key point is to my mind that you need to address is what is your evidence that they were controlled by the military and not by the civilian owners. We are in danger of getting into, to my mind a futile argument about semantics and I’m sure neither of us would wish that. So what evidence is there that these schools were run by the military? I’m not saying definitively that they were not – how to prove a negative after all, but the circumstantial evidence and not just in this thread but on others that have touched upon German training schools when we’ve discussed them in the past, is no Bestellnummer,yet some kind of serial system no military training school. Now I agree this is not enough evidence and a hostage to fortune beside, but you need to support your view that the schools were actually run by the military and not the manufacturers with evidence.I hope I'm open minded enough to say this is entirely possible, but faith is good, evidence is better.


I think we can both agree, that failing further evidence on the Rumplers and the DFW we are at present stuffed on the identity of the flying school shown. I think we can also agree it’s a training unit, but that’s about it. In fact your pointing to the fact that the aircraft shown belonged to a unit outside the mainstream army rather leads to the question – such as? The DFW C.V first flew May 1916, so if there were no civilian run schools as you contend, what remains? I’ve tried blowing up the symbol over the numbers but that doesn’t help. I fear we must await the emergence of further evidence on the unit shown. Start praying to the gods of ebay.



Regards,


Clint
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  #12  
Old 21st October 2020, 16:41
Stig Jarlevik Stig Jarlevik is offline
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Re: Stunning German Photo Album

Indeed Clint

Much more info would be very desirable.
When it comes to civil vs military during WW 1 I admit I have no good evidence except a gut feeling that everything which could remotely be connected to the war effort immediately became of prime interest to the "Generals".

Exactly how this finacially came about is unknown by me. I have not studied economy and finance (I have enough trouble with my own ) and never will.

What I can say with certainty is that every aircraft manufacturer became basically overnight very dependent on the Government aka military leadership and most likely followed whatever instructions were issued to the point.
Most likely the ownership remained unchanged in all/most companies, since there cannot have been any use to change anything unless pure incompetence/fraud was discovered.

Most likely there was a far better control than before from the authorities and it would surprise me a lot if there wasn't assigned liasion officers as a sort of go-between, since I would say it would have been very beneficial for both parties to do so.

As a means of recognition, all aircraft which were flyable were most likely impressed in one way or another (or at least grounded). They were also painted with military crosses and recognised as a military asset.

I cannot picture a situation where civil pilots, aircraft owners, aircraft manufacturers etc were left on their own accord and allowed to do whatever they pleased, especially not in Germany! All this lead up to the conclusion, that there must have been a general shifting of authority from pure civil in concept to at least a 50/50 civil/military control (Personally I believe even more in favour to the military side).

As long as the civil co-operation worked, I don't think anyone, regardless of position, felt any need for any changes. Big capital and Generals are usually on the same side both in war and peace....

No, it is the odd military markings which interests me. Did these manufacturers training facilities use aircraft outside the military Bestellnummer sequences or not? If they didn't, how do we explain these odd photos and numbers painted on them?
So far my theory is they did, but I will admit defeat as soon as someone can come up with a better one....

Cheers
Stig
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