Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum  

Go Back   Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum > Discussion > Allied and Soviet Air Forces

Allied and Soviet Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the Air Forces of the Western Allies and the Soviet Union.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 22nd July 2018, 15:13
focusfocus focusfocus is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 539
focusfocus is on a distinguished road
P-47 collision with Bf.109,22/06/44

The P-47 (42-76496),2/lt Boleslaw Kociencki,405th FG(510th FSq) MACR 6222,crashed Cloyes-sur-loir (12km so Chateaudun) after a collision with a Bf.109:the Bf.109 also crashed.

What is the german unity involved?
Michel
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 22nd July 2018, 16:09
Laurent Rizzotti Laurent Rizzotti is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Paris, France
Posts: 2,427
Laurent Rizzotti is on a distinguished road
Re: P-47 collision with Bf.109,22/06/44

According to the ETO USAAF Victory List, Kocienki was awarded a Bf 109 that day at 2120 hrs at Cloyes.

So if there is a trace of this collision in German documents, it should be searched in a battle in the evening of that day.

III./JG 54 pilots claimed four P-47s and a P-51 at the right time (if both sides then used same hour, I have not checked it) and in the same general area.

Statement of Kocienki's loss (by the way he is still MIA) can be found here:
http://www.510fs.org/wwii/killed-in-...slaw-kociencki

This statement says that he was making a frontal pass with a Bf 109 and both were seen to crash, the P-47 losing part of its wing, but no collision is actually described.

III./JG 54 suffered no known loss that day.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 22nd July 2018, 18:14
focusfocus focusfocus is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 539
focusfocus is on a distinguished road
Re: P-47 collision with Bf.109,22/06/44

The claims of III./JG54 ,4 P-47(405thFG +1 mustang (no mustang lost in that region)are very,very far from Cloyes-sur-Loir,156 km by car.

Claims:Le Neubourg,Beaumont-le Roger (2),Lyons-la-Foret
P-47 crashs:Baux-de-Breuteuil (Bernay),Grancamp (Bernay) and Evreux-Dreux
It's not really the same general area.
michel
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 22nd July 2018, 18:28
Alex Smart Alex Smart is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Great Britain
Posts: 3,009
Alex Smart is on a distinguished road
Re: P-47 collision with Bf.109,22/06/44

Hello,
From Tony Woods files.
Time
21.02 - 1/JG1 - Ltn. Stoffel - claimed P47
21.12 - 9./JG54 - Uffz. Erwin Schleef - claimed P47
21.12 - 9./JG54 - Obfhr. Gunther Zilling - cIaimed P47
21.15 - Stab III./JG54 - Hptm. Robert WeiB - claimed P51
21.20 - 2./JG54 - Ltn. Hans Dortenmann - claimed P47
21.22 - 7./JG54 - Uffz. Otto Venjakob - claimed P47
Supplemental claims were-
7./JG51 - Uffz. Rahner - claimed P47
Stab I./JG3 - Hptm. Ernst Laube - claimed P47

Perhaps it is known if one of the above Luftwaffe pilots were killed on this day ?

However if both airmen were killed then is may be that there was actually NO claim credited for either airman .

Ooops, just read the previous post, so looks like the JG54 claims can be eliminated. Which just leaves -
21.02 - 1/JG1 - Ltn. Stoffel - claimed P47
7./JG51 - Uffz. Rahner - claimed P47
Stab I./JG3 - Hptm. Ernst Laube - claimed P47

Alex

Last edited by Alex Smart; 22nd July 2018 at 19:12.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 22nd July 2018, 20:08
focusfocus focusfocus is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 539
focusfocus is on a distinguished road
Re: P-47 collision with Bf.109,22/06/44

Hello Alex

The P-47 claimed by Lt Stoffel (I./JG1) is Lt Raymond Parkhust (366thFG-390thFsq) crashed N.E Tinchebray.21h10
His claim is:Villers-Bocage/Vire (region of Tinchebray) 21h02

The claim of Laube is:P-47 near Bapaume (region of Arras),no P-47 lost in that region.

Michel
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Found Wreck of P 47 Serial Number 42-75705 gradoli.v Allied and Soviet Air Forces 4 13th November 2012 18:24
No.32 Squadron Mid Air Collision Graham Holmes Allied and Soviet Air Forces 3 19th February 2012 18:35
Do 18 collision on 12 October 1942 Laurent Rizzotti Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 4 19th October 2011 13:06
C-47 / Ki-43 collision ACESIGGY Japanese and Allied Air Forces in the Far East 2 10th April 2009 00:07
P-38 Collision late 1943 Alex Smart Allied and Soviet Air Forces 0 28th May 2005 13:27


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 19:06.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2018, 12oclockhigh.net