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  #1  
Old 3rd November 2021, 07:08
Boomerang Boomerang is offline
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Defence of the Reich: Female Fighter Controllers?

Donald Caldwell refers to III/JG 26 being directed by a female controller during a highly successful interception of American bombers over southern Germany on 24 April 1944 (JG 26 War Diary Vol 2 page 247).

Can anyone throw light on the 'career path' a female controller would have followed to reach such a responsible position? Clearly combat experience can be ruled out, so I am interested in how else a woman could have been appointed to the role.

Also, is the female controller pointed out by Caldwell a one-off, or were have other examples been identified?

Thank you
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Old 3rd November 2021, 09:25
MW Giles MW Giles is offline
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Re: Defence of the Reich: Female Fighter Controllers?

Thjis does not answer your question directly, but I seem to remember that when Corona was introduced at the end of 1943, issuing false orders to the Nachtjagd fighters from the UK, the Lw swapped its male controllers for female ones, only to be met by German speaking WAAFs being used from the UK.

Regards

Martin
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  #3  
Old 3rd November 2021, 12:12
Boomerang Boomerang is offline
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Re: Defence of the Reich: Female Fighter Controllers?

Martin:

Thank you for raising a very interesting point. And does this raise the possibility that the female controller referred to by Caldwell could actually have been relaying orders from a male controller, with the female voice being used to cut through Allied 'spoof' transmissions?

Don W
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Old 3rd November 2021, 16:44
Larry deZeng Larry deZeng is offline
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Re: Defence of the Reich: Female Fighter Controllers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boomerang View Post
Donald Caldwell refers to III/JG 26 being directed by a female controller during a highly successful interception of American bombers over southern Germany on 24 April 1944 (JG 26 War Diary Vol 2 page 247).

Can anyone throw light on the 'career path' a female controller would have followed to reach such a responsible position? Clearly combat experience can be ruled out, so I am interested in how else a woman could have been appointed to the role.

Also, is the female controller pointed out by Caldwell a one-off, or were have other examples been identified?

Thank you
See:
Williamson, Gordon (2003). World War II German Women's Auxiliary Services. Osprey Publishing. ISBN 978-1841764078.

I know of no career path (Laufbahn) for Luftnachrichteninnen as Jagdleitoffiziere. I say this after many years of research on the Luftnachrichtentruppe.

L.
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Old 4th November 2021, 07:24
Boomerang Boomerang is offline
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Re: Defence of the Reich: Female Fighter Controllers?

Larry:

Thank you for such a clear and thoroughly researched response. Your comments reflect what I have always understood to be the absurd under-utilisation of its female population by the Reich (which contrasts dramatically with many Allied nations).

The employment of a female controller, as described by Caldwell, strikes me as incongruous, a view reinforced by your reply. It may be that why a female controller was directing III/JG 26 on 24 April 1944 is an issue that can't be clarified at this remove. Another (minor) WW2 puzzle.

Thanks

Don W
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Old 4th November 2021, 08:35
richdlc richdlc is offline
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Re: Defence of the Reich: Female Fighter Controllers?

pretty sure there's another example of a 'false' female controller voice (in other words a British WAAF) in 'Graf Zeppelin's Eagles' which I just finished editing, but can't recall where at the moment
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Old 10th November 2021, 21:19
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Broncazonk Broncazonk is offline
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Re: Defence of the Reich: Female Fighter Controllers?

I've read two (2) examples: (1) "Eagle in Flames ~ The Fall of the Luftwaffe" E. R. Hooton (1997) Pg. 165.

"Within the signal service the girls [women] worked very well, and their soprano and contralto voices proved clearer than men's in directing fighters in the babel of conversation and jamming which otherwise filled the earphones." [71]

Citation 71 reads: See: Schreiber, "Luftwaffen- und Marinehelfer (Flak)': and Luftwaffe Training and Organization (PRO Air 40/1473).

(2) Second example--I can't find the reference, but it went something like this: during a radar interception controlled by female Luftwaffe controllers, the British spoofed the interception direction with German speaking women (fake) controllers who sounded better than the real controllers. The flight leader ends up teasing what he believes to be the fake controller and the real Luftwaffe controller comes back and says, "no I am the real controller." The result was a failed interception.

I've been trying to find it, but so far, no luck.

Bronc
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Old 10th November 2021, 21:54
edwest2 edwest2 is offline
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Re: Defence of the Reich: Female Fighter Controllers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boomerang View Post
Larry:

Thank you for such a clear and thoroughly researched response. Your comments reflect what I have always understood to be the absurd under-utilisation of its female population by the Reich (which contrasts dramatically with many Allied nations).

The employment of a female controller, as described by Caldwell, strikes me as incongruous, a view reinforced by your reply. It may be that why a female controller was directing III/JG 26 on 24 April 1944 is an issue that can't be clarified at this remove. Another (minor) WW2 puzzle.

Thanks

Don W

"absurd under-utilisation"? Why do you draw that conclusion? I have seen many, many female flak helper photos and then there were the women who worked in factories and for various other firms involved in war work, plus in communications and clerical work.


Best,
Ed
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Old 11th November 2021, 00:05
Larry deZeng Larry deZeng is offline
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Re: Defence of the Reich: Female Fighter Controllers?

Bronc -

To your #7, above:

Yes, I've seen some of those citations, too................but there's a big difference between being a school-trained Jagdleitoffizier and a school-trained female plotter or telephone communicator who has been asked to sit next to the male Jagdleitoffizier because she (1) knows what's going on and (2) has a high-pitched voice and is willing to give it a go while he pretty much tells her what to say.

But I agree with you and the others here in that more research needs to be done on this subject. I think it possible that in 1944 one or more of these larger air defense command and control bunkers organized an ad hoc local week or two-long course to teach and train a few Ln.-Helferinnen in the basics of being a Jagdleitoffizier. These local training courses were widely conducted by units throughout the Wehrmacht but did not result in the reclassification of an individual's trade certification. The courses were strictly at the OJT level to meet some need not provided for within the specialized school training establishment.

L.
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Old 14th November 2021, 06:09
Boomerang Boomerang is offline
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Re: Defence of the Reich: Female Fighter Controllers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by edwest2 View Post
"absurd under-utilisation"? Why do you draw that conclusion? I have seen many, many female flak helper photos and then there were the women who worked in factories and for various other firms involved in war work, plus in communications and clerical work.


Best,
Ed
Hello Ed:

Allow me to make three points in response:

Firstly, I was referring to the situation in the Reich as a whole. It is possible for the statements that (i) women were employed in specific roles (flak helpers, comm's and clerical work, etc) and (ii) overall, the female population was not effectively used for the war effort to both be true. Showing that a limited number of women were employed in specific roles does not necessarily prove that women were utilised effectively across the economy

Secondly, let's look at how well the Reich did use its female population. Obviously a huge topic and I certainly don't pretend to be an expert. But Albert Speer, Minister for Armament and War Production, does mention this issue in his monumental 'Inside the Third Reich'. He refers to being lobbied by industrialists, who pointed out the much higher utilisation of women in munitions production in WW1 than in WW2. Speer states that his plan to approach Hitler in April 1942 to rectify this situation was undermined by Fritz Sauckel (Reich Plenipotentiary for Labour), so the domestic female population remained drastically underutilised. Speer then compares the drastic fall in household domestic servants in Britain with the lack of a similar decline in wartime Germany. Speer reports that a similar effort by him to mobilise German women for war production in January 1944 failed. Granted Speer is but one source, but he was a well-informed one.

Similarly, Norman Stone in 'Hitler' states "Contrary to popular notions, the economy was not militarized at all. Women, for instance, were discouraged from taking employment, and to the very end there were fewer working women in Germany than in 1918".

Thirdly, I reckon that Larry has nailed the situation in his #9. I would like to know whether the female controller guiding III/JG26 on 24 April 1944 was simply sitting next to a qualified male controller and repeating his directions, or was in fact issuing directions in her own right. As Larry says, a topic for additional research...and isn't that (unfortunately) where we end up all too often!

Cheers

Don W

Last edited by Boomerang; 14th November 2021 at 06:11. Reason: Correct typo
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