Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum  

Go Back   Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum > Reviews > Books and Magazines

Books and Magazines Please use this forum to review or discuss books and magazines.

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 29th April 2005, 23:36
Christer Bergström Christer Bergström is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 430
Christer Bergström is on a distinguished road
was: Forthcoming book on JG 5 ace Walter Schuck (copy of original thread)

I thought some of you guys might be interested in the new updates on my website dedicated to the forthcoming book on JG 5 ace Walter Schuck:

http://www.bergstrombooks.elknet.pl/messerschmitt-ace/index.htm
__________________
All the best,

Christer Bergström

http://www.bergstrombooks.elknet.pl/
  #2  
Old 29th April 2005, 23:41
Ruy Horta's Avatar
Ruy Horta Ruy Horta is offline
He who rules the forum...
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Amstelveen, The Netherlands
Posts: 1,472
Ruy Horta has disabled reputation
Re: Forthcoming book on JG 5 ace Walter Schuck

Ah, finally a new free plug ...er book!!

__________________
Ruy Horta
12 O'Clock High!

And now I see with eye serene
The very pulse of the machine;
A being breathing thoughtful breath,
A traveller between life and death;
  #3  
Old 30th April 2005, 01:14
Jim Oxley's Avatar
Jim Oxley Jim Oxley is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Culcairn, NSW, Australia
Posts: 548
Jim Oxley is on a distinguished road
Re: Forthcoming book on JG 5 ace Walter Schuck

Excellent news Christer. Looking forward to it.
  #4  
Old 1st May 2005, 19:06
sveahk sveahk is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 182
sveahk
Re: Forthcoming book on JG 5 ace Walter Schuck

Hello Christer,

Meeting Walter Schuck in Speyer I asked him about your book (a poster was hanging right behind him). Well, he didn't seem to know much about it, "...yes, I've met him (means you) a couple of times, but a book, no, I don't think so...".
At which moment, his two "business(?)companions" interferred and explained that there's certainly a book coming up, end of year or start of next year...
Then I talked with him about his post-war experiences, like going to Switzerland, taking the swiss brevet etc. Very clear and very detailed.

So, Christer (and of course everybody putting out texts about those times), you are writing books about things that happened sixty and more years ago, you are interviewing and talking to participants in WWII who are eighty and ninety years old. Their memories can of course be substantiated by diaries and log books, but still, I'm always amazed of the clarity and portrayed exactness of the facts represented in those "memory" books.

I mean, this is not just the "memory" of, say, being with your unit in Minsk in the summer of 1943, flying missions every day. No, this is about "remembering" the exact flights each and every day, where and when and why. And I think it's astonishing how very, very seldom I find any question marks, any doubt about those very exact data presented in these books...! I know, the 100% truth doesn't exist. but still...

Of course I'm full of admiration for all of you giving us those "memories" served so well and convincingly on the plate of time. With lots of research and knowledge, but still I wonder...The short term memory sometimes plays games with us and how is it with the long term one...?

Well, those were just a couple of thoughts after meeting with a very nice and interesting man, Herr Walter Schuck.

Take care
Hans
  #5  
Old 1st May 2005, 22:07
Christer Bergström Christer Bergström is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 430
Christer Bergström is on a distinguished road
Re: Forthcoming book on JG 5 ace Walter Schuck

What an odd post, if I may express an opinion. I will of course be most interested to hear anyone’s opinion on the book when it is published, but to hear this kind of criticism against a yet unwritten book is . . . unusual.



Meeting Walter Schuck in Speyer I asked him about your book (a poster was hanging right behind him). Well, he didn't seem to know much about it, ‘...yes, I've met him (means you) a couple of times, but a book, no, I don't think so...’.





- Well, since I wasn’t there, I can’t argue against you. But I assume that you misunderstood him, or he misunderstood you. Fairly recently, Mr. Schuck gave me a written consent to write his authorized biography. I am in regular contact with him - via phone and via e-mail - and we are all the time talking about the book. So either you misunderstood him or he misunderstood you, or he just cracked a joke. Maybe he found you arrogant?



“At which moment, his two "business(?)companions" interferred”



- “Business companions”? Exactly what are you trying to say? Present was Mr. Ernst Scheufele, the chairman of the JG 5 Veteran’s Organization, Mrs. Scheufele, and my research assistant Mr. Horst Kube. See the photograph here: http://www.bergstrombooks.elknet.pl/messerschmitt-ace/photos.htm



“Christer (and of course everybody putting out texts about those times . . . all of you giving us those "memories" “



- Are my books identical with everyone else’s book? How can you lump together books like that?



“you are writing books about things that happened sixty and more years ago”



- If I understand you correctly there can be no biographies on e.g. Napoleon, for that was way more than sixty years ago, and those who lived to witness that are long since dead.



“this is not just the "memory" of, say, being with your unit in Minsk in the summer of 1943, flying missions every day. No, this is about "remembering" the exact flights each and every day, where and when and why.”



- Is it? Says who? Please try to be concrete. I like to hear opinions on my books, but if those opinions shall have any purpose, I need them to be concrete. Please give me some concrete examples of parts in one of my books where you feel that you have reason to question the veracity of what I am writing. I have never described any pilot’s exact flights each and every day, where and when and why, but maybe you were thinking of another author than me? If so, who did you have in mind? Which pilot biography claims to describe a pilot’s exact flights each and every day, where and when and why? I would welcome a concrete reply, and a discussion on concrete issues.



To return to the actual issue, I am working in close cooperation with Mr. Walter Schuck on a biography on his life. The book will of course be focused on his career as a fighter pilot. I am using whatever material I have access to, and it is my and my assistants’ aim to present a biography which is as detailed as possible. However, it is excluded that we will be able to present an exact description of Schuck’s exact flights each and every day, where and when and why. I don’t think anyone expects that.



I suggest that Sveahk deals with existing books instead of yet unwritten books.
__________________
All the best,

Christer Bergström

http://www.bergstrombooks.elknet.pl/
  #6  
Old 1st May 2005, 23:25
sveahk sveahk is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 182
sveahk
Re: Forthcoming book on JG 5 ace Walter Schuck

First of all, Christer, there's no need to get mad.
I'm just honestly interested in how you and other authors deal with finding out about the truth about those times , confusing times as war is. With facts that sometimes are not so easy to verify, with participants who are now old, sometimes very old, where memories of these participants perhaps conflict with time gone by. My understanding is that when we're getting older the view of our past change as well. I imagine you can agree with that statement.

See, those are things that interests me, not only from a readers point of view.

Nothing else.

And by the way, Herr Schuck actually said what he said (see above). Why would his companions otherwise have to interfer and set things straight??

And by the way, your "Black Cross/Red Star" and "Jagdwaffe, War in the east 1944-45", the two books I've read up till now with you as an author, I think are both well researched and well written!

Take care
Hans


.
  #7  
Old 2nd May 2005, 03:30
Andrew Arthy Andrew Arthy is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Tasmania, Australia
Posts: 614
Andrew Arthy will become famous soon enough
Re: Forthcoming book on JG 5 ace Walter Schuck

Quote:
Originally Posted by sveahk
First of all, Christer, there's no need to get mad.
I'm just honestly interested in how you and other authors deal with finding out about the truth about those times , confusing times as war is. With facts that sometimes are not so easy to verify, with participants who are now old, sometimes very old, where memories of these participants perhaps conflict with time gone by. My understanding is that when we're getting older the view of our past change as well. I imagine you can agree with that statement.

See, those are things that interests me, not only from a readers point of view.

Nothing else.

And by the way, Herr Schuck actually said what he said (see above). Why would his companions otherwise have to interfer and set things straight??

And by the way, your "Black Cross/Red Star" and "Jagdwaffe, War in the east 1944-45", the two books I've read up till now with you as an author, I think are both well researched and well written!

Take care
Hans


.

Hans,

You make a good point about first-hand accounts, because after 60 years people's memories naturally fade.

That is why first-hand accounts should mainly be used to complement other primary sources, especially reliable contemporary documents like logbooks, KTBs, loss material, ULTRA etc. etc. etc. I realise that nearly all primary sources have some flaws, but the author has to judge which sources are of more value than others.

While I can't speak for Christer, myself and my research partner, Morten Jessen, don't base our work on the first-hand accounts from veteran pilots. We base it on the other primary sources, which are generally more reliable*, and we use the first-hand accounts to complement these other primary sources. For example, in our forthcoming book on the FW 190 in the Mediterranean we list the exact details of the loss of a pilot or aircraft from the German loss report, ULTRA and/or KTBs, and then include comments from a veteran about that particular incident. The contemporary reports establish the 'facts', the exact date, time, location, etc. while the veteran might be able to add some more interesting information, like the pilot's nickname etc.

* I'm not implying that veterans falsify their memories, I just mean that documents provide more accurate dates, times etc.

That's just my humble opinion. I don't claim to be an expert author or historian.

Cheers,
Andrew Arthy

"You'll never silence the voice of the voiceless" - Rage Against the Machine
  #8  
Old 2nd May 2005, 22:23
sveahk sveahk is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 182
sveahk
Re: Forthcoming book on JG 5 ace Walter Schuck

Andrew,

Thanks a lot for your comments regarding the pros and contras with first-hand accounts. I believe you've found a good way to solve this sometimes problem and I'm really looking forward to your and Morten Jessen's new book! Do you already have an idea when it's due?

Take care
Hans
  #9  
Old 3rd May 2005, 14:02
Horst Kube's Avatar
Horst Kube Horst Kube is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 214
Horst Kube
Re: Forthcoming book on JG 5 ace Walter Schuck

Hello Hans,

this morning I spoke with Walter Schuck and informed him about your post referring to his so-called statement ..."but a book, no, I don't think so...".

His answer to your report was very clear and very detailed:"Der spinnt wohl", which comes close to bullshit.

And he cleared the matter, that he answered to this (your) question: "I can not say, when the book comes out, because I do not know how far Christer is with his compilings".

He asked me to tell you, that his short and long term memory is excellent and that he never would sign PR posters (one was hanging right behind him, see it also on Christer's webside) of a forthcoming Walter Schuck biography, if he would have not any idea about such a book, which -by the way- was written in cooperation with him.

Strange post you gave us Hans - and I wonder, if your short time memory played games with you?

Anyway, you can fresh it up - latest on the 15th of October 2005 during the next Speyer event. Come and ask again, but most of all: Listen!

All the best,
Horst (one of the companions...)

Last edited by Horst Kube; 7th February 2006 at 09:26.
  #10  
Old 4th May 2005, 01:07
sveahk sveahk is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 182
sveahk
Re: Forthcoming book on JG 5 ace Walter Schuck

Hello Horst,

If the misinterpreting of our conversation in Speyer is due to my not listening too closely, well, I'm sorry and please tell Herr Schuck this. But believe me, what I thought I heard when asking Herr Schuck about the book was that he didn't know about it and when you, sitting beside Herr Schuck, then told me, yes, there will be a book, well... see above...

Anyway, i still think it's a valid discussion, when we read biographies, personal recounts and such from those times, with all due respect to the participants in the war, to ask, how much can truthfully be remembered after such a long time.

And I believe it's very much up to a good historian and author to know WHAT to write, and perhaps even more, WHAT NOT...! As a reader, without all the background information, I certainly want to trust as much as possible of what is written down in the books of my choice. And I think a critical reader is a good reader...

Hans
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Forthcoming book Youngest Ace, Russian edwest Books and Magazines 25 28th August 2021 01:02
Forthcoming book - Dragons on Bird Wings A Combat History of the 812th"Sevastopol"IAP Vlad Antipov Books and Magazines 53 27th October 2020 22:38
Forthcoming book on JG 5 ace Walter Schuck Christer Bergström Books and Magazines 28 7th November 2006 01:52
Walter Schuck visits USA Horst Kube Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 3 4th May 2005 17:42


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 22:15.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2023, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2018, 12oclockhigh.net