Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum  

Go Back   Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum > Discussion > Post-WW2 Military and Naval Aviation

Post-WW2 Military and Naval Aviation Please use this forum to discuss Military and Naval Aviation after the Second World War.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 30th July 2022, 22:29
knusel's Avatar
knusel knusel is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 1,853
knusel is on a distinguished road
The Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-21 - the utmost longevity of scoring

Good evening Gentlemen,

I believe that the Mikoyan-Gurevich scored kills over a longer period than any other plane in history.
The earliest shootdown that I know of (drones excluded) was when the Vietnamese claimed an F-105D on 7Jun1966.
The latest shootdown that I know of was when on 27Feb2019 a Pakistani Air Force F-16 fighter jet was shot down by Indian air defence forces in Rajouri sector of Jammu region.
A period of 52 years, 8 months and 20 days. It's virtually impossible that any plane has superseded that record.
Unfortunately, I don't know the names of the pilots who claimed those two shootdowns. Does anybody of you ?

Cheers,

Michael
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 2nd August 2022, 16:22
Franek Grabowski Franek Grabowski is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Warsaw, Poland
Posts: 2,352
Franek Grabowski is on a distinguished road
Re: The Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-21 - the utmost longevity of scoring

The last kill is by Group Captain Abhinandan Varthaman but this seems bogus. The information appeared quite a while after the shot down of Varthaman who was captured, and no convincing evidence has been ever produced. For me it looks like a propaganda action.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 2nd August 2022, 23:17
knusel's Avatar
knusel knusel is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 1,853
knusel is on a distinguished road
Re: The Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-21 - the utmost longevity of scoring

Good evening Franek,

thanks for the name which is a good starting point for me to investigate the matter further. You're right: a modern F-16 shot down by a vintage jet seems hard to believe.

What do you think about the 10 August 1999, when a Pakistan Breguet Atlantic was shot down by two Indian Air Force MiG-21's ?

Cheers,

Michael
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 3rd August 2022, 00:31
Stig Jarlevik Stig Jarlevik is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,808
Stig Jarlevik will become famous soon enough
Re: The Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-21 - the utmost longevity of scoring

Franek

While beyond my real interest you say the last claim was by G/C Varthaman.
In the next sentence you indicate Varthaman was the one shot down and captured.

Which way is it?

Cheers
Stig
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 3rd August 2022, 16:30
Franek Grabowski Franek Grabowski is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Warsaw, Poland
Posts: 2,352
Franek Grabowski is on a distinguished road
Re: The Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-21 - the utmost longevity of scoring

The MiG-21 was Bison, ie. with upgraded avionics to pretty modern standards. So not a looser as it may seem.
The exchange of fire was more less as follows. PAF performed an attack on targets behind LOC in Kashmir. IAF scarmbled to intercept the formation and G/C Varthaman went too deep into enemy territory and was downed by F-16. Fortunately he ejected, was a little mauled by locals before rescued by the Pak Army, got a cuppa and few days later was returned. Few weeks later it was claimed by India that G/C Varthaman shot down an F-16 before he was downed himself. Radar screens were produced to substantiate the claim but Lockheed denied any F-16 being lost (they have them under control). Actually no evidence that G/C Varthaman ever managed to fire at anything. On the opposite there was a PAF claim for Su-35, also unsubstantiated.
I know nothing about Atlantic incident.
MiG-21s are operated by few air forces, so there are very slim chances for the type to score again.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 3rd August 2022, 17:11
Stig Jarlevik Stig Jarlevik is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,808
Stig Jarlevik will become famous soon enough
Re: The Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-21 - the utmost longevity of scoring

Thanks for the explanation Franek

Cheers
Stig
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 3rd August 2022, 21:48
GoranA's Avatar
GoranA GoranA is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Maribor, Slovenia
Posts: 20
GoranA is on a distinguished road
Re: The Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-21 - the utmost longevity of scoring

If we ignore (yet) unsubstantiated Varthaman claim and consider 100% confirmed Atlantique from 1999 as the last, that would make 33 years span for MiG-21 (there is also even more dubious Syrian claim from 1964 for Israeli Mystere)

F-16 has 39 years between Rafi Berkovich' Mi-8 over Zahle in April '81 and Syrian L-39 over Idlib in March 2020, shot down by Turkish AF


What about geographical distribution of scoring? Are F-16, MiG-21 and Mirage F-1 the only airplanes with shotdowns over 3 continents, or are there any other candidates?
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 3rd August 2022, 22:26
knusel's Avatar
knusel knusel is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 1,853
knusel is on a distinguished road
Re: The Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-21 - the utmost longevity of scoring

Good evening Gentlemen,

very interesting.
Can you tell me names of the pilots who shot down the Atlantic in 1999 or the Syrian L-39 in 2020 ?

The P-38 scored above 5 continents:
http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showth...ight=continent
The P-40, too:
http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showth...ll+p-40&page=2

Cheers,


Michael
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 4th August 2022, 01:54
GoranA's Avatar
GoranA GoranA is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Maribor, Slovenia
Posts: 20
GoranA is on a distinguished road
Re: The Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-21 - the utmost longevity of scoring

Ok , I was thinking about post WW2, but still good to know ...


Regarding 1999 Atlantique shot down - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prashant_Kumar_Bundela

For the turkish victory much less is known, which is logical, considering that it is an ongoing conflict and the pilot is still in service (some hints that aircraft was from 192 filo). More is known about the victim - crew members were Major Hussam Mayhoub (KIA) and Col. Ammar al-Boodi (rescued)
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 4th August 2022, 15:42
knusel's Avatar
knusel knusel is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 1,853
knusel is on a distinguished road
Re: The Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-21 - the utmost longevity of scoring

Hello Goran,

I've found the following entry for the first MiG-21 kill:
https://warisboring.com/in-1964-the-...n-oil-company/

Can you tell me if the dubious Syrian claim from 1964 for an Israeli Mystere was earlier ?

Have a nice Thursday,

Michael

Last edited by knusel; 4th August 2022 at 20:17.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Korea-MiG-15 and the other side of the history Daniel Nole Post-WW2 Military and Naval Aviation 24 20th April 2022 21:18
Luftwaffe losses 21 feb 1944 Cees Steijger Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 4 30th January 2016 18:25


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 08:36.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2018, 12oclockhigh.net