Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum  

Go Back   Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum > Discussion > Allied and Soviet Air Forces

Allied and Soviet Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the Air Forces of the Western Allies and the Soviet Union.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 3rd September 2018, 13:22
Sid Guttridge Sid Guttridge is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 49
Sid Guttridge is on a distinguished road
Missing Southern Rhodesia Air Force serials SR14-SR21?

Hi Guys,

Southern Rhodesia began to form its own air unit in the mid 1930s with an assortment of Hawker Harts and Audaxes, and de Havilland Rapides and Tiger Moths. These had the serials SR1-SR13.

After WWII the sequence resumed with SR22.

What aircraft filled the serials SR14-21?

Two possibilities occur to me.

1) The serials were given to assorted civil de Havilland Moths of different types impressed for training at the outbreak of war.

or

2) The serials were given to some Hawker Hardys delivered to the SRAF's No.1 Squadron in Kenya, shortly before it was taken into the RAF in April 1940.

In both cases the numbers are about right.

Any help would be much appreciated.

Cheers,

Sid.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 3rd September 2018, 16:49
Col Bruggy Col Bruggy is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 872
Col Bruggy is on a distinguished road
Re: Missing Southern Rhodesia Air Force serials SR14-SR21?

Hello,

Just two at the moment:

SR 18 - Tiger Moth (ex-T6956)
SR 19 - Tiger Moth (ex-T7995)

Col.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 3rd September 2018, 20:13
RSwank RSwank is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Bloomington, IN USA
Posts: 779
RSwank is on a distinguished road
Re: Missing Southern Rhodesia Air Force serials SR14-SR21?

On page 298 of the book "A Pride of Eagles A History of the Rhodesian Air Force"

https://books.google.com/books?id=Rl...R%2021&f=false

there is this sentence: "On 19th April, (1947) another aircraft joined the fleet, an Avro Anson numbered SR 21."

The same page mentions a Leopard Moth SR 22. Another page says SR 22 was taken on charge in March of 1947. Not sure why the numbers seem out of sequence with the dates. At any rate, the post war sequence may have started with SR 21.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 4th September 2018, 01:02
Alex Smart Alex Smart is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Great Britain
Posts: 3,033
Alex Smart is on a distinguished road
Re: Missing Southern Rhodesia Air Force serials SR14-SR21?

Hello,

SR14 = Hawker Audax I.
SR21 = Avro Anson.

May be a link with the Tiger Moths,
T6956 - SR18 - Sold 6.5.49 to SRAF.
T7995 - SR19 - Sold 6.5.49 to SRAF.
Were there others this date sold to SRAF ?
Other Audax's to Southern Rhodesia were K7534; K7540; K7546 and K7548.

SR 22 - Leopard Moth
SR23 - DH Rapide
SR24 - DH Rapide
SR25 - Dakota
SR26 - Tiger Moth
SR27 - Tiger Moth
SR28 - ?
SR29 - Anson C.19.
SR30 - Anson C.19.
SR31 - Anson C.19.

Alex
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 4th September 2018, 15:56
Sid Guttridge Sid Guttridge is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 49
Sid Guttridge is on a distinguished road
Re: Missing Southern Rhodesia Air Force serials SR14-SR21?

Hi Guys,

Thanks very much.

As SR18 and above are definitely post war, this only leaves SR14-SR17.

This presumably discounts the eight Hawker Hardys and probably the assorted impressed DH Moth trainers, of which there were about eight or nine.

The four Audaxes I know of were given the serials SR10-SR13, so the Audax mentioned above by Alex as SR14 fits into that sequence. I would be interested to know the source?

This leaves the three serials SR15-SR17. This coincides with claims that three Gloster Gauntlets were allocated to Rhodesia, but I can find no confirmation of their arrival.

Any further ideas?

Many thanks.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 4th September 2018, 19:51
Leendert Leendert is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Belgium
Posts: 1,726
Leendert is on a distinguished road
Re: Missing Southern Rhodesia Air Force serials SR14-SR21?

There's are reference here https://www.flightglobal.com/FlightP...20-%201514.PDF that some Gauntlets were used in Rhodesia for met flights. May have been the three Gauntlets reportedly delivered to the SRAF.



Regards,
Leendert
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 5th September 2018, 01:01
Col Bruggy Col Bruggy is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 872
Col Bruggy is on a distinguished road
Re: Missing Southern Rhodesia Air Force serials SR14-SR21?

Hello,

The three Gauntlets supplied to Rhodesia were:

Gauntlet II - K5277, K5347 & K7825

K5277 - Deld to 10 FTS 27.4.36; 1 ASU 9.4.38; 5 MU 7.2.39; 36 MU 18.8.39 for shipment to Rhodesia for SRAF as No.150

K5347 - Deld to 17 Sqn 11.8.36; 5 MU 27.6.39; 36 MU 18.9.39; shipped to SRAF as No.151

K7825 - Allotted to 66 Sqn 30.9.36 tipped up in forced landing, 5.11.36; 5 MU 17.7.39; 36 MU 18.9.39; to ME for SRAF 14.9.39 as No.152; used by 3 Sqn RAAF.

K File(1995)/A-B/Halley/pp.180 & 184

Col.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 5th September 2018, 03:49
Alex Smart Alex Smart is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Great Britain
Posts: 3,033
Alex Smart is on a distinguished road
Re: Missing Southern Rhodesia Air Force serials SR14-SR21?

This link may give a clue in your search

https://archive.is/jXhTm

Alex
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 5th September 2018, 12:53
Sid Guttridge Sid Guttridge is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 49
Sid Guttridge is on a distinguished road
Re: Missing Southern Rhodesia Air Force serials SR14-SR21?

Hi Guys,

Thanks again. That all adds to the picture.

The Gauntlet serials 150-152 slot between the SRAF serials SR-1+ and the Southern Rhodesia Air Service (SRAS) wartime serials that ranged between about 250 and about 305. SRAS doubled as the SRAF's Communications Squadron over 1940-45.

As the SRAF's Rapide SR-8 later became SRAS's 300, there was certainly some aircraft swapping and serial changing between the two organizations during the war.

Perhaps the RATG's Meteorological Service, which I have seen referred to as a Rhodesian organization, had its own aircraft (Harts and Gauntlets), as Leendert states, and they had their own wartime serials in the 150+ range and just possibly the Gauntlets were formerly SR-15 to SR-17?

Again, many thanks for edging me towards a conclusion with your collective expertise.

Sid.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 5th September 2018, 13:31
Sid Guttridge Sid Guttridge is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 49
Sid Guttridge is on a distinguished road
Re: Missing Southern Rhodesia Air Force serials SR14-SR21?

Hi Guys,

I have found the following on an RAF forum:

"Last in the scheme of things there were sundry old Hawker Harts and Gloster Gauntlets in various areas of the command. They were used on the 'met climb' which took place at regular intervals, the frequency depending on the season of the year. For the record, the old Hart was originally K3888 of the Royal Air Force and survived until the middle of 1944, when the advent of some Hurricanes caused it to be written off charge."

One wonders if these Hurricanes were given to the SRAF met flight or whether they remained part of the RAF?

Cheers,

Sid
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Imperial Ethiopian Air Force at war 1935-1936? GuerraCivil Pre-WW2 Military and Naval Aviation 6 4th August 2015 05:14
Air Force Lt. Col. Charles M. Walling identified Pilot Post-WW2 Military and Naval Aviation 0 15th June 2012 13:57
RAF Bomber Command 'Y' Reports Bruce Dennis Allied and Soviet Air Forces 8 29th December 2011 21:58
Missing Aircrew Reports -The Full Story kaki3152 Allied and Soviet Air Forces 3 31st March 2011 14:54
Air Force Officer Missing In Action From Vietnam War Is Identified Pilot Post-WW2 Military and Naval Aviation 1 16th June 2008 23:52


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 11:53.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2018, 12oclockhigh.net