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  #721  
Old 16th November 2016, 08:08
jetaca jetaca is offline
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Re: Friendly fire WWII

Quote:
Originally Posted by Troy White View Post
Last night while I was looking for something completely different I stumbled upon the following “friendly” fire information. Funny how that works.

On 18 March 1945 the 352nd FG, 353rd FG, 357th FG & 359th FG all had contact with Soviet fighters in the Berlin area.

A P-51 from the 353rd and one from the 352nd crash landed behind Soviet lines as a result of engagements with the Soviets.

Several flights of 352nd FG mixed it up with Yak-9s but combat was broken off when proper recognition was established. However, Lt. Albert Peterson of the 487th FS got into a turning contest with four Yaks and got himself shot down. Peterson eventually made his way back to his base on 1 May 1945. I couldn’t find anything more on the 353rd FG or the 357th FG.

But the big story was what happened with the 359th FG over the airfields at Zackerick and Joachimsthal. Mustangs of the 368th FS and 369th FS shot down a total of nine and damaged one of the Russians in a good sized fracas with no losses. They also destroyed two more on the ground as they were taxiing to take off. The 359th initially mistook the La-5s for Fw 190s and the Yak-9s for Bf 109s. The Americans broke off combat when they figured out their mistake but in some cases the Soviets wanted to keep fighting so the Americans obliged and shot them down. The stats show that it was not much of a contest.

High scorers that day were Capt. Ralph Cox who shot down three La-5s and Maj. Niven Cranfill who flamed two Yak-9s. Both became aces with those victories.

Here are confirmed victories for the 359th FG on 18 March 1945:

Cranfill, 368th FS: 2 Yak-9s
Cox 368th FS: 3 La-5s
Burtner, 368th FS: 1 Yak-9
Burtner, 368th FS: 2 Yak-9s (ground)
McCormack, 368th FS: 1 Yak-9
Gaines, 368th FS: 1 Yak-9
McIntosh, 368th FS: 1 Yak-9
Berndt, 368th FS: 1 Yak-9 (damaged)

After the incident Lt. McIntosh was court marshaled and sent back to the USA because his was the only gun camera film evidence of the incident that survived.

On the Russian side Joseph Stalin had the surviving Russian pilots executed and expected the USA to do the same with the 359th pilots which of course never happened.
Cheers--

Troy
Are you proud of these "victories" of the allies? It is astounding, "aces" with such "victories". In the USSR did not boasted of such. They are not included in the statistics of victories.
Ivan Kozhedub (best ace of allies, with 62 victories over the Germans) on La-7:
- April 17, 1945: has been attacked by fighter escort of the 332 th Fighter Group... and shot down two P-51, оne exploded in the air, and the second landed in the location of Soviet troops, said that knocked down in a fight with FW-190))



- late April - beginning of May 1945: shot down three B-17s in the Soviet occupation zone.
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  #722  
Old 26th January 2017, 16:53
Laurent Rizzotti Laurent Rizzotti is offline
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Re: Friendly fire WWII

A new air-to-ground case

26 January 1944
A bomb from one of our planes dropped by mistake damaged the southern breakwater and the building containing the Port Commander's offices at Kerch. One 2 cm AA gun was put out of action, three men were killed.

Source: War Diary German Naval Staff Operations Division for January 1944
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  #723  
Old 27th January 2017, 15:12
mars mars is offline
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Re: Friendly fire WWII

Quote:
Originally Posted by jetaca View Post
Are you proud of these "victories" of the allies? It is astounding, "aces" with such "victories". In the USSR did not boasted of such. They are not included in the statistics of victories.
Ivan Kozhedub (best ace of allies, with 62 victories over the Germans) on La-7:
- April 17, 1945: has been attacked by fighter escort of the 332 th Fighter Group... and shot down two P-51, оne exploded in the air, and the second landed in the location of Soviet troops, said that knocked down in a fight with FW-190))



- late April - beginning of May 1945: shot down three B-17s in the Soviet occupation zone.
These clashes between Soviet and Western Allied air forces around the end of the war were actually more common than we used to thought, though we had no evidence that either side did it intentionally, it was rather caused by misidentification, you flew to enemy space, you met an aircraft did not look like belong to your side, so you shot immediately. As far as I know, neither side included these into their official scores.
Besides, just want to ask Mr Troy, what is his source about "On the Russian side Joseph Stalin had the surviving Russian pilots executed ", this claims sound suspicious, more like a cold war propaganda, I know quite a few these friendly fir cases between VVS and USAAF over Hungary and Czech, none of the Soviet pilots involved were executed
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  #724  
Old 27th January 2017, 15:52
Frank Olynyk Frank Olynyk is offline
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Re: Friendly fire WWII

Cranfill is the only pilot from the 368th FS. All the others are from the 369th FS.

None of these claims against Russian aircraft are included in the pilots scores. As far as I know they never prepared Personal Encounter Reports (=combat reports).

Cranfill had four victories as of this date. His fifth, and last, victory was against a Me 262 on March 19, 1945.

Cox had four victories as of this date. He is credited with a FW 190 on this date at 1135, at Joachimsthal. The claims against Russian aircraft were made at Zackerick A/F, N of Kustrin. I do not know where Joachimsthal is with respect to Zackerick or Kustrin.

FO Harley E Berndt claimed a Me-109 damaged at 1130 at Joachimsthal. Gaines claimed a Me-109 at 1135 at Joachimsthal.

It is of course possible that the claims for Me-109s are for Yaks, and the FW-190 claimed could be a La-5 or -7. But the 109 and 190 claims were officially confirmed.

My information on the claims against the Russians comes from the book Mustangs and Unicorns, and I would love to know where the author got that information. Does anyone know?

Enjoy!

Frank.
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  #725  
Old 17th February 2017, 17:41
mooog1 mooog1 is offline
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Re: Friendly fire WWII

I have the operations record book for that incident, but no mention of a friendly fire incident
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  #726  
Old 9th March 2017, 14:25
Bruce Dennis Bruce Dennis is offline
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Re: Friendly fire WWII

From CX/MSS/2456:

16 April 1943, 8/JG.2

8/JG.2
Compiled by Pruefmeister AK WESTPHAL
1900 hours 15/4
Received by Feldw. EISENSCHMIDT
Place, date and time of accident: BREST harbour 1414 hours 14/4
Weather situation: no influence
Fw 190-5, werk no. 2643, black 8
Shot down by own ship flak.
A/c crashed in flames. Pilot baled out from about 100 meters. Parachute not completely open when Feldw. EISELE hit the watewr. Engagement with enemy.
Damage 100%. Replacement required.
Have the next of kin been informed? Yes. In writing.
Replacement required? Yes.


NOTE: the name of the ship is not given.
Bruce
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  #727  
Old 13th March 2017, 23:23
Laurent Rizzotti Laurent Rizzotti is offline
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Re: Friendly fire WWII

343rd Field Artillery Battalion, US Army, 17-18 August 1944
"As more troops were rushed up to plug the holes left behind the racing T-O boys, the 90th edged toward Chambois, driving and blocking until only one road remained that the battered German 7th Army could even hope to escape through. On 17 August, while moving to a position northwest of Nonant Le Pins, two P-38‘s circling overhead came down to strafe the column. The second came in too low, shearing the tops of four telephone poles and hitting Baker Battery‘s 4th gun section truck with its wing and propeller. Four men were killed and two injured during the strafing. The men killed were T/4 John Burkhart, Pfc. Henry Maul, Pfc. Fred D. Weyl, Jr., and Pvt. Tony A. Vigil. The plane crashed and burned about 250 yards from the road. The pilot was killed in the crash and burned beyond recognition, but his dog tags identified him as an American pilot. The next day Service Battery made a special trip to pick up engineer supplies, which turned out to be one ―maul‖. In the course of getting these ―supplies, the truck was strafed by British Spitfires and the driver was injured."
Source:
http://www.90thdivisionassoc.org/His...%20FA%20Bn.pdf

The P-38 that crashed during the attack was possibly of 474th FG. See http://francecrashes39-45.net/page_fiche_av.php?id=6000

47th Armored Field Artillery Battalion, 2 November 1944
The battalion's first entry into Germany occurred at approximately 1360 near Rotgen, Germany, on November 2, where it went into firing positions to support a contemplated assault by CC "A" upon the towns of Strauch, Simmerath and Kesterneck. That afternoon at 1630 the battalion suffered the heaviest casualties it suffered in a single day. A flight of eleven P-38 planes circled the CP buildings and then bombed and strafed the area. The first three planes dropped two five-hundred pound bombs each, the first bomb hitting five yards from the assistant S-3's halftrack. Capt. E. D. Clark, Tec 6 A. G. Baker, Tec 6 Holscher, Tec 3 Nixon, Pfc. Leonard all were instantly killed. M Sgt Cate died of wounds the same day in a nearby hospital. Prompt action by a nearby anti-aircraft unit which fired recognition flares caused the remainder of the planes to pull out and leave the area.
The contemplated operation was cancelled and the remainder of the month of November saw the battalion engaged in firing interdiction, harassing, and some observed missions on the Siegfried Line defenses.
http://www.5ad.org/units/47AFA.html

202nd Field Artillery Battalion, 4 December 1944
"By tragic coincidence, at 1030 hours, the Battalion’s remaining L-4 Grasshopper observation and liaison aircraft was hit by friendly artillery fire and fell in flames near Puberg, Alsace, France. Pilot 1st Lt. Orris E. Herr and Observer 1st Lt. John W. White were killed instantly. A howitzer in “B” Battery was conducting registration fire in the area of Hinsbourg, France when the plane was hit."
http://www.202ndfieldartillery.com/Timeline.html
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  #728  
Old 13th July 2017, 15:34
Laurent Rizzotti Laurent Rizzotti is offline
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Re: Friendly fire WWII

On 22 March 1941, a Blenheim of 139 Sqn was shot down by British AA fire near Lowestoft. I guess Brian had already this but the Admiralty War Diaries (available online at if your have a fold3 account) include a message by C in C Bomber Command to Air Ministry about this that is interesting. See https://www.fold3.com/image/302108797.

Brian, if you don't have a fold3 account, tell me here and I wil copy the text.
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  #729  
Old 13th July 2017, 15:55
Brian Brian is offline
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Re: Friendly fire WWII

Hi Laurent

Thanks once again.

My fold3 account has lapsed, so I would appreciate a copy of the report, please. My e-mail is now briancullauthor@gmail.com

Cheers
Brian
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  #730  
Old 13th July 2017, 18:21
Laurent Rizzotti Laurent Rizzotti is offline
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Re: Friendly fire WWII

Here it is:

N.O.I.C. Lowestoft states that at 1226 today an aircraft came in from seawards over Lowestoft at 700 to 1000 feet. Ships opened fore and A/C was hit in port engine and came down in flames near Oulton. No recognition signals fired and A/C came out of sun on course 285°. Blenheim type but no roundels seen on wings or body. Was probably hit by point fore from Queen Empress. A/C burnt out. Three bodies identified as RAF personnel. Further enquiry will be held.
(C. in C. Nore 1956/22 to Adty.)

OPS 626 22/1. Blenheim 139 Squadron, returning from Operational mission crossed coast Lowestoft 1226/22 on straight course and recognised as Blenheim by local Constabulary. After passing over town, Naval guns opened fire and aircraft hit and crashed with loss of all crew. Action by Naval guns in direct contravention of S.D. 158 (1) appendix "A" paragraph 3 (2). Regret that I must press for a searching enquiry so that the responsibility for this act may be established, and in order that Naval A.A. fire may be brought under a proper system of control. This is the fifth occasion since last October in which my aircraft have been engaged by A.A. fire at Lowestoft alone and illustrated the irresponsible manner in which fire is opened on friendly aircraft.
(C. in C. Bomber Cd. 2340/22 to Air Ministry)
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