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Luftwaffe Camouflage and Markings 1933-1945 by Kenneth A. Merrick
with Jürgen Kiroff

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  #11  
Old 22nd March 2006, 21:13
Dick Powers Dick Powers is offline
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Re: Me 262 WNr. 501232, Vol 2, p. 291

Interesting. I noticed that the "Ullmann" photo seems to have dark patches reversed from the other two photos.
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  #12  
Old 23rd March 2006, 09:49
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Re: Me 262 WNr. 501232, Vol 2, p. 291

Regarding the Smith/Creek photo: There is a small dot at the chin of the soldier standing in front of the Me. Is this a fault of the scanner? My copy of the book doesn't show this dot
BTW: Dan O'Connell's Production Log shows the same version of the photo as Merrick (page 182).
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Old 23rd March 2006, 18:39
Kjetil Aakra Kjetil Aakra is offline
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Re: Me 262 WNr. 501232, Vol 2, p. 291

I agree with your observations, Ruy.

Certainly looks like the dark starboard side checkers are the only ones present, the others being made out of camouflage. If not, I really hope someone can explain the apparent camouflage demarcation visible in one of the checkers??

It is obvious that the three versions you posted, Ruy, cannot all be portraying the truth. I would like to learn which photo is closest to the truth, if any!

Hopefully some of the Me 262 experts here can enlighten us further.

Kjetil Aakra
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  #14  
Old 28th March 2006, 21:08
Harold Lake Harold Lake is offline
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Re: Me 262 WNr. 501232, Vol 2, p. 291

Everyone is missing something. It must be understood that once an airplane falls captive, the new owners will probably mess with the original. Why? Because they have the time, the paint and maybe the inclination. The last element here is key.

The American's may have wished to complete what they thought the Germans started but did not finish. This could have meant adding the supposed missing 2nd color to the checker band, or overpainting it in one new dark color. A photo exists of another Me 262, from the same unit, that has the same one color half finished checker band! Draw your own conclusions.

Hal
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Old 29th March 2006, 09:09
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Re: Me 262 WNr. 501232, Vol 2, p. 291

Hi Hal,

I believe I did mention that possibility, but that does not apply to the same photo having three variants.

However I am very thankful that your mention this!

Could you please point me to a / the publication (if there is one) with this second a/c?
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Old 1st April 2006, 18:07
Harold Lake Harold Lake is offline
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Re: Me 262 WNr. 501232, Vol 2, p. 291

Ruy,

The photo is from my friend, who got it from Jim Crow (#7032). I thiink he said it was taken at Herzogenaurach. From this thread it seems pretty clear that the original German applied checker was only 1 color. Having two Me 262s with the same sort of checker pattern suggests that that was just what they wished, or alternatively, they didn't have time or the materials to finish the band with a 2nd color. Take you pick.

Hal
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  #17  
Old 1st April 2006, 18:45
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Re: Me 262 WNr. 501232, Vol 2, p. 291

Thanks Harold,

I find these facts pretty fascinating.

It certainly changed the way I look at these pictures.

Anyway, a single color chequer is even more interesting!
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Old 20th March 2017, 14:57
Milos Gazdic Milos Gazdic is offline
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Re: Me 262 WNr. 501232, Vol 2, p. 291

Again coming to the discussion ages later but this is really interesting!! I never noticed the difference between all these images published in the books!

Way to go for sharp eye Ruy!

Before I start discussing the photos - I wanna say that I always imagined that the checkers were "mirrored" and that the both star-board and port-side were having i.e. the checker that faces front and is on top same color and that looking from above the upper most checkers would be "double width". Seems I was wrong.

I am not an expert on this aircraft & except having the books, decals & all the other bits & pieces collected here & there on the net regarding this aircraft, I can only comment the photos as a professional photographer & retoucher with more than two decades in the business.

Looking at Starboard / Right side of the fuselage (Photo showing solder standing in front of the tail with hands in the pockets):
- Merric's Vol. 2 on Page 291 has it printed with most details & tones
- 2nd in quality comes Smith & Creek Vol4 of 262 book, being a touch smaller & a bit more contrasty
- 3rd in quality is one in Ullmann's book (I have both editions but only 2nd one with me in Shanghai) which shows quite low resolution.
I don't have other book(s) mentioned above with me in Shanghai.

Looking at these one and the same image published in three different books I believe that only one not altered at all is one in Merrick's book making Staboard side pattern clearly unfinished and with only one color applied, showing both upper & lower camouflage color in "negative" checkers. / Me 262 books tries to add one field where demarcation line of the camouflage clearly shows but forgets the lower field which clearly shows very bright undersurface camo. / Version in Ullmann's book goes clearly all the way & makes the band look almost as single color with barely some checkered structure showing through.

This is one and the same photo & it's clear it has been altered in the past, either by publishers or people who copied and re-copied it from the original. No filters, or film versions are responsible for it's look since it would be impossible to change the film or remove/add filter and still capture a soldier in the walk at the exactly same position (one behind the wing).

I am unable to discuss the Port Side of the aircraft since I have 4 images (3 only showing the checkers) in one and only book here in Shanghai so until I bring further books here I can only think of what could have been done to Starboard side...

Anyhow, once again - very interesting find Ruy!
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