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  #1  
Old 19th March 2017, 11:43
RolandF RolandF is offline
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Last Do 24s from Aviolanda/Fokker and SNCAN

The Dornier 24 was license-manufactured both from the flying-boat-specialists Aviolanda/Fokker at Papendrecht/Amsterdam and from SNCAN at Sartrouvile.
In my lists the last Do 24 from Amsterdam is WerkNr 3435 VH+JM, delivered in summer '44, and from Sartrouville WerkNr 1152 BJ+FP (SNCAN-internal WNr 52), completed in June '44. Further 120+ flying boats were planned for use with Seenotdienst until Sep'45 from which 40 were finally built for the French Aéronavale.
Both facories were overrun by the Allies in 1944.
Can somebody share some light
1) which Do 24s or semi-finished FBs were found at Sartrouville or the Netherlands respectively?
2) which last Do 24s found their way to the German Seenotdienst
3) why didn´t Fokker continue with producing the Do 24? Certainly there was need for it in (still) Dutch Eastindia
4) How was it possible that several Do 24s in Australia, Great Britain and Sweden had to be scrapped "because of lack of spares"? Was the pressure of manufacturers of the Catalina and other allied FBs too big and too many out-of-service FBs available on the market after VE- and VJ-day?

Thanks in advance for any clarification

RolandF
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Old 19th March 2017, 15:15
Stig Jarlevik Stig Jarlevik is offline
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Re: Last Do 24s from Aviolanda/Fokker and SNCAN

Roland

There exists a French document listing the total planned SNCAN production as 127 units (No 127) up to September 1945

No 58 - 64 were RLM WNr 1178 - 1184
No 65 - 72 were RLM WNr 1201 - 1208
No 73 - 76 were RLM WNr 1221 - 1224
No 77 - 86 were RLM WNr 1231 - 1240
No 87 - 89 were RLM WNr 1253 - 1255
No 90 - 97 were RLM WNr 1271 - 1278
No 98 - 101 were RLM WNr 1301 - 1305
No 102-127 were not yet assigned any RLM WNr.
None of the above were of course built.

However since I always thought No 43-57 actually were manufactured maybe they were just part assembled (since you state No 42 was the last one delivered to Luftwaffe)?

Cheers
Stig
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Old 19th March 2017, 17:54
andrus andrus is offline
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Re: Last Do 24s from Aviolanda/Fokker and SNCAN

Hello,

Glaß, Bettina: Der lange Schatten der Rüstung: die Entwicklung der Luftfahrtindustrie im Raum Toulouse von der Mitte der 1930er Jahre bis 1970
http://nbn-resolving.de/urn/resolver...:hbz:294-15912

claims there were 52 produced and 77 still to produce (Page 139, column "Verbliebene Aufträge")?
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Old 19th March 2017, 19:51
RolandF RolandF is offline
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Re: Last Do 24s from Aviolanda/Fokker and SNCAN

Thanks a lot. SNCAN-No 52 would be equivalent to WNr 1155, flown with Seenotstaffel 81. So SNCAN-No 53-77 (WNr 1156 BJ+FQ to WNr 1160 BJ+FU) according to the production list from Dec 12th 1944 were not delivered. Are there reports which Do 24s were found at Sartrouville?
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Old 20th March 2017, 00:51
Stig Jarlevik Stig Jarlevik is offline
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Re: Last Do 24s from Aviolanda/Fokker and SNCAN

Sorry Roland

I misplaced your final Luftwaffe delivery to French No 42 instead of No 52, hence my rather partly confusing answer. Have corrected it

Unfortunately I have no such report you are interested in.

Cheers
Stig
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  #6  
Old 20th March 2017, 09:57
RolandF RolandF is offline
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Re: Last Do 24s from Aviolanda/Fokker and SNCAN

Thank you, Stig, for your data.
In a former post SNCAN-Nos from 53 to 57 (WNr 1156 to 1160) were listed in the aforementioned report from Dec 1945. Do you mean this report desribes the status from September '45?
This could be the case because 1157 was completed in mid-June and SNCAN was scheduled to a delivery rate of 6 FBs per month and those D 24s might have been in the hangars in different stages of completion.
Andrus' report tells a very descriptive reason for France's aeronautical efforts after the liberation: Primary to keep the industry going and not to lose the worker´s skills. Secondary to equip the French Airforce and 3rd for a potential export. 2 and 3 failed because Germany did not provide state-of-the-art technoloy which had been developed in the Reich. After the war the world market was flooded with planes with old (= non-jet) technology. Now it becomes evident why France so eagerly was interested to gain modern German technology developed in Southern Germany (Do 335s and He 162s).
Hopefully our french friend can provide a report which Do 24s were semi-finished at Sartrouville in July 1944. Germany did this after capturing the Dutch Aviolanda production in May 1940 - the Do 24N-1 examples.

Regards
RolandF
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Old 20th March 2017, 11:29
Stig Jarlevik Stig Jarlevik is offline
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Re: Last Do 24s from Aviolanda/Fokker and SNCAN

Morning Roland

Unfortunately I have made very rudimentary notes regarding the report (no date for instance), so I don't know.

In an article by Jean-Pierre Dubois he states that Sartrouville was liberated in August 1944 and that an initial order was placed for 20 units, deliveries to start in December that same year. Unfortunately a flooding of the Seine plus some production problems ensured that deliveries were not made until March nest year. The last of 40 built in total came off the production line during the spring of 1947. The last Aeronautique Navale aircraft were SOC in March 1954.

Trying to answer some of your other questions
3) When WW 2 was over there was not a single Do 24 in service with any Dutch forces anywhere. In the far east the units had been completely re-equipped with Catalinas and I doubt they had any plans or even considered to use any Do 24 again.

4) The two most notable users of the Do 24 post WW 2 were France (already discussed) and Spain. Spain kept their Do 24 going for a long time and there must have been ways to keep their fleet going, so presumably spares was not such a problem, at least not for them.

Australia used six during the war itself. By late 1944 they were all basically worn out and with a healthy supply of Catalinas there was no longer any need to keep them flying. All were scrapped during 1945 and I cannot see any valid reason for Australia to buy new built Do 24 from let's say France.

Sweden had one Do 24 in service between 1945 - 1951. It was well liked and considered a good design. When received it was not factory fresh but an escaper from Luftwaffe. I doubt the intentions from the Swedish Air Force at the time was to re-equip with any further Do 24. The one we had was received 'free of charge' and we used it until it was worn out and no longer economical to keep going. Since three Catalinas had been delivered by then, having none of the inbuilt problems the Do 24 had, it was simply wfu. I doubt Sweden went looking for spare parts to try and keep it flyable. The Catalinas were by then far more economical to operate.

With regard to Britain I can see no reason why they should have any interest in the Do 24. Beside testing it (as they did with all other aircraft they could find), I doubt it was even considered for any service use.

So I guess you can say that Catalinas 'took' most of the market post WW 2 but those nations who really used the Do 24, were able to do so for a considerable time.

Cheers
Stig
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Old 20th March 2017, 12:21
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udf_00 udf_00 is offline
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Re: Last Do 24s from Aviolanda/Fokker and SNCAN

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showpo...2&postcount=10
Report here :
http://www.cdvandt.org/cios-xii-5.htm
184 Ko downloadable PDF :
http://www.cdvandt.org/CIOS-XII-5.pdf
Unfortunately appendix A is missing
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Old 20th March 2017, 14:44
Stig Jarlevik Stig Jarlevik is offline
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Re: Last Do 24s from Aviolanda/Fokker and SNCAN

Thanks Udf

Very interesting, and it seems to confirm what we already know.
Unfortunately no exact details as per Roland's wish as far as I can see.

Cheers
Stig
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Old 20th March 2017, 17:24
RolandF RolandF is offline
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Re: Last Do 24s from Aviolanda/Fokker and SNCAN

Combining my info, one can say:
-WNr 1155 (SNCAN No 52) was the last Do 24 manufactured at Sartrouville under German control
-In August 1st 1944 42 additional Do 24s had been ordered by the Luftwaffe with additional 77 Flying Boats pre-ordered for 1945
-Motors for 8 FBs were stored at Sartrouville and material for 30 FBs at the SNCAN production line
-40 Do 24s were produced and operated by the Aeronavale
-the first french-produced Do 24s were delivered in Dec '44
-at least 2 captured Do 24 were operated by the Aeronavale
-France supplied spares (also dismantled Do 24s?) to maintain the Spanish FBs. There was an embargo for Franco´s Spain to acquire war material.
The report refers to a similar report for the "De Schelde" manufacturing plant in the Netherlands, i.e. the Aviolanda/Fokker production line. This CIOS report is referred as "supplement" to the Dutch report. Does anybody of you have access to this?

Regards
RolandF
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