Ju 88 A-17 ??+DP

[DB601E]

Hi,
does anybody have info about Ju 88 A-17 where last 2 digits of the marking (Geschwaderkennung) is +DP.
The unit could be KG 26 (1H+DP) or KG 76 (F1+DP) or KG 77 (3Z+DP).
Is there a loss known for a AC with this kind of marking later than spring 1943?


Thanks a lot

Lino

[edNorth]

You have to show pic (to verify you are correct on A-17 version) -Possibilities are KG 26 (or KG 77) but KG 76 did not have A-17´s (so far as I remember).

[thenelm]

Neither loss is a Ju 88A-17 as reported, but there is this:
Ju 88A-4, 6535, Breitschädel, Uffz. Georg, , 6., KG 26, , 1H+DP, , , 12-Nov-43, Crew missing due to engine trouble. Crashed., , Lw.Bfh.Mitte/Deutschland, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #12)-Vol.23, , ostwärts Insel Falster, 100%, H, B Ogefr. Wolfgang Beyerlein, Bf Ogefr. Helmut Meißner & Bs Ogefr. Alfred Deutschler, ,

[Archéavion]

Hello Thenelm ,

Just a quick question! Where did you get this raport crash? Where do I go to find this information?

I just find a Ju88 fell on the night of 2 / 3 or 3 / 4 August 1944 in Normandy and I'd like to identify this device. Can you help me?

Thank you

[DB601E]

Hi thenelm and Ednorth,

thanks for first info.
I have seen a picture in a private photo collection of a torpedo mechanic (from 8. LT BK), taken about spring 1943 in italy. The marking +DP was visible. The aircraft was equiped with LT, and had the special bulge on the right side of the fuselage. So for sure, at least modified, a A-17.

6. KG 26 fits very well, as the LT BK was attached mainly to II./KG26.

So it's maybe possible, AC was modified to A-17, in loss records still mentioned as A-4?

As i'm currently looking for more documentation about torpedo units, i'll try to get the picture.

Best greetings.

@Archéavion
Salut, you may contact me via PM.

[Chris Goss]

Thenelm would have got this from the Quartermaster General's Returns but they are missing for 1944 so I refer to your initial query-if you want to know more you need to be more precise like date/type/crew/Wk Nr

[edNorth]

DB601E

Ok. Bulge on right side of nose - either A-4 LT or A-17 (depending on details and time frame) - just not "bulge on nose". The A-4 LT was in use from (apx) mid 1942 to early 1944, the A-17 from very late in 1943 to May 1945 (just to give approximate time frame).

Picture "taken about spring 1943" is not very exact - so much was happening in 1943 in Italy and not all "losses" for that period are known. For exmple there were many more Ju 88´s found wrecked at Foggia Airfields than are reported lost there - but then many were indentified as belonging to KG 76 but just few of them had unit code (many only had stkz. when looking at pictures taken of many of the wrecks).

And there is mis-match in info "+DP" could indicate II Gruppen but "from 8. LT BK" might it not indicate III Gruppen (?) I had the impression that Luftwaffe ground units were working on Staffeln basis.

Finding this exactly, without data on all aircraft assigned, transferred, loaned or permanenty excanged between two full Geschwders - and there were Torpedo Training Units (Schulen) in Italy too - then suggesting even one (as done by "thenelm" - with full respect) is pure guesswork.

Aircraft needed not to be "100%" lost to get new code (!) - Simple switch between Staffeln could change it and without more precise info (as suggested by Chris Goss) - impossible.

Over span of two years, "that particular plane" could have changed codes many times and same unit code was used over and over again (by several different aircraft, but usually just one at a time).

Then without definite Geschwader code, even more complicated and I will not suggest even one ... these last two might even have been ´last two´ of Stammkz.!

Quick sample search in just part of my listings last night, about 30+ possible matches were found on A-4´s only (KG 77, KG 26 and Stkz.)

ed

[Nick Beale]

From 6./KG 77, there was Uffz. Pabst’s 3Z+DP shot down off Corsica by a Beaufighter on 6 August 1944.

[DB601E]

Thanks a lot Ed and Nick for the information.
Some more background about my search:
After i was doing some research underwater about 3 Ju88 wrecks
near Marseille, i became more and more interested in the history of
the Anti-ship and recon missions in the mediterranean. (So KG 26, KG 77,
KG 76 and KG 100.) As you know, material (documents and pictures) about Luftwaffe units in southern france in 1944 is very hard to get. So i was very happy finding this former Torpedo mechanic with his memories and pictures. Specially because his home isn't so far away from where i live :-)
What i'm trying to do now is collecting his information and pictures. Specially because, as far as i know, there is almost nothing known about the service of the LT BK units. (Luft-Torpedo Betriebs-Kompanie). They have been attached directly to the RLM. (According to the mechanic), and not necessarly always to a special Geschwader or Gruppe.
So finding a loss/damage for this Ju 88 could provide more information about KG units supported by the 8. LT BK.
He told me he was primary attached to II. KG 26, but sametime he told me, they have been sometimes delivering LT by to other units/places by using a transport Ju 52.

Greetings from cold bavaria
Lino

[DB601E]

Got the picture now.

Greetings

Lino