Yet ANOTHER German nickname for the IL 2...

[NickM]

I was reading Franz Kurowski's book "Luftwaffe Aces" & came across yet another nickmame the Germans used for the IL2 Sturmovik: 'the butchers'; sounds like a pretty cool yet scary nickname but I was wondering if that expression is less due to the casualties the IL inflicted on the German Army & more related to the German expression for slaughterhouse work, "schlacht", which of course, is also the term used to refer to German ground attack units? Well what say the experts? Or is this just a figment of Kurowski's overheated prose?

NickM

[Ruy Horta]

IMHO it is just a bad translation of the more general term "ground attacker".

Jäger
Bomber
Schlächter

etc

[Boandlgramer]

the german word for butcher is "metzger " or even schlachter (not schlächter)
but the groundattack planes (schlachtflugzeuge ) were called ( nicknamed ) "schlächter" , from the word "schlacht".
the german word " schlacht " translate means " battle " .
maybe a bit hard to understand for non german speaker.

[NickM]

Ruy & Boandgramer:

thank you both! Boandgramer, you're quite right about my being a non german speaker; I only thought I KNEW the meaning of 'schlacht' from that book on FW190s the National Air & Space Museum published (it's called "Focke Wulf FW 190: Workhorse of the Luftwaffe', in case you're interested!); the expression 'slaughter' was the definition they gave to schlacht;

thanks again!

nickm

[Rasmussen]

Boandlgramer wrote : "maybe an bit hard to understand for non german speaker" --- he is right with his words because his explanation of the word "Schlächter" isn't correct in German linguistic usage. "Schlächter" doesn't came from "Schlacht" (battle) but from the verb "schlachten". The "Schlachter" is the traditional profession, the "Schlächter" is in the German linguistic usage an person like psychopatic killer, who kills a lot of poeple in a short time with atrocius methods. So the word "slaughter" describe the word "Schlächter" much better than "battle".

One of the problems of non German speaker is the usage of one word in many meanings. It's necessary to know the complete kontext. So it's possible that one soldier understood the "Schlächter" as an possibility to express the word "Schlachtflugzeug" and the other person beside meant the "killer in the air", "murdered" his comrades without the chance of resistance.

German is an wonderful language ... and a hard too.

Best wishes
Rasmussen

[Boandlgramer]

oh mann,
rasmussen.
das wort schlächter in verbindung mit einem flugzeug ist gewiss als abkürzung für schlachtflugzeuge verwendet worden.
so wurden eben diese flugzeuge genannt, die sich unmittelbar in das schlachtgeschehen einmischten. damit sind aber nicht bombenflugzeuge gemeint.

[Christer Bergström]

On 24 November 1941, the German fighter pilot Lt. Hermann Graf of 9./JG 52 made the following note in his diary:

"Dabei handelte es sich um meine erste IL 2, also um einen von den gefährlichen Apparaten, zu denen die Landser 'Schlächter' sagen."

I think both Boandlgramer and Rasmussen may be right, but in this context, I think Rasmussen's interpretation is right. It would make no sense if Graf had meant to say:

"This was one of the dangerous aircraft which the German ground troops call 'ground-attack aircraft'."

I think it makes more sense to assume that what Graf meant was something like this:

"This was one of the dangerous aircraft which the German ground troops call 'butchers'."

[Rasmussen]

Oh mann,

boandlgramer.

"gewiß" --- dabei gewesen??? Gewiß. Was aber am falschen Wortstamm auch nichts ändert.

(an German reaction on a german answer - I think uninteresting for our English speaking friends ;-) )

Thanks Christer, an wonderful example for that what I meant.

[Dénes Bernád]

A (semi) off-topic question: why was the Fw 190 called in English 'The Butcher Bird' (see, for example, subtitle of Green and Swanborough's book)? I think the name originated for similar reasons...

[NickM]

Denes:

As I recall, the nickname for the FW, "Butcher Bird" is referring to a small (probably smaller than a dove), compact, aggressive carnivorous bird known as a Shrike; it has been known to attack & overpower rodents, small birds, snakes, lizards, frogs, etc...it has this charming little habit of impaling it's prey on thorns and sharp twigs; the 'hanging meat' image is what spawned the nickname 'butcher bird'; so no doubt someone felt the FW was a great example of being a potent weapon in a small compact package & no doubt thought naming after the Shrike was appropriate;


NickM