Hptm. Helmut Bennemann (Stab I./JG52) 27.Apr.43

[Andrey Kuznetsov]

Hello,

Hptm. Helmut Bennemann (Stab I./JG52) claimed a victory on 27.Apr.43.

According to Tony Wood, it was LaGG-3 at 14:52
According to JFV Bd.12/II, it was Il-2 at 14:02

What is written in original sources?

The authors of JFV volumes corrected many Wood's errors but saddly made new ones. I am far from criticizing the authors for this, because in such a multivolume work full of facts, errors are inevitable. But it would be interesting to clarify some facts.

In Bennemann's case he apparently claimed a LaGG, as weren't Il-2s in the air neither at 14:02 nor at 14:52. And it seems 14:52 is more probable than 14:02.

Best regards,
Andrey

[Johannes]

Hi Andrey

Both are wrong

100% it's a Jak-7, again time very difficult to read, but as they are in exact time order for JG52, and the next one is 100% 1415 hrs, it can only be 1402 or 1412 hrs, and it looks more like 1402.
Both the one above and below on mikrofilm are Lagg's so easy mistake. Grid reference is 85183, altitude 3000 metres anerk.nr=182

This particular days mikrofilms cleaned-up to read beautifully, so no mistakes. Original very difficult to read, and more so towards the top of the page, difficult even to know where on the page you are....hence the LaGG.

Kind regards

Johannes

[Andrey Kuznetsov]

Originally Posted by Johannes

Both are wrong
100% it's a Jak-7, again time very difficult to read, but as they are in exact time order for JG52, and the next one is 100% 1415 hrs, it can only be 1402 or 1412 hrs, and it looks more like 1402.

Johannes, thank you again! Much appreciated.

It was undoubtedly the air combat against 6 Yak-1 of 4.IAP. 14:02 is too early but 14:12 looks like the actual time. 3 Yak-1 were lost against 4 claims, quite moderate overclaim ratio.

Originally Posted by Johannes

Original very difficult to read, and more so towards the top of the page, difficult even to know where on the page you are....hence the LaGG.

This image quality is a real headache for any researcher

Kind regards
Andrey

P.S. Some days ago I have tried to send you a E-mail via forum. Do you received it?

[Johannes]

Hi Andrey

I have sent you many e.mails on the e.mail address you sent me, and they didn't come back "unknown".

I./JG52 seems a perfectly honest Gruppe to me, most false claims with this Geschwader come with III./JG52 specifically 7./JG52 and worst of all 9./JG52, II./JG52 is somewhere in the middle.

Kind Regards

Johannes

[focusfocus]

Hello Andrey

Unless I'm mistaken,I only have 2 claims around 14h00.(Bennemann/Quast)

Others:
17h00/18h00=23 (including Slov/Kroat) vs 402 IAP (5 losses),812 IAP (1 lost)
16h00=12 vs ?
05h00=5 vs ?
13h00=1 vs ?
11h00=1 vs 291 IAP (1 lost)

I have also 293 IAP (3 damaged) time ?? but what degrees of damage? belly-landings,crash-landings ??

Some sources speak of 13 Soviet losses in total!!..so it seems a BIG dose of overestimates!!

Best Regards
Michel

[Johannes]

Hi Andrey/Michel

I checked the Staffel mikrofilm for Stab.I./JG52 which gives only date and time, and the correct time is 1402, i'm 100% on that.

Kind regards

Johannes

[Andrey Kuznetsov]

Hi Johannes,

Originally Posted by Johannes

I have sent you many e.mails on the e.mail address you sent me, and they didn't come back "unknown".

Sorry to disturb you again. Please try my new temporary address:

andkuztmp@mail.ru

Johannes and Michel,
I'll answer/comment the questions a bit later

Cheers,
Andrey

[Andrey Kuznetsov]

Originally Posted by Johannes

I checked the Staffel mikrofilm for Stab.I./JG52 which gives only date and time, and the correct time is 1402, i'm 100% on that.

4.IAP began to take off against the bomber formation at 14:00 DSZ so downing of a Yak-1 2 minutes later 15 km from the airfield and away from the active area seems questionable. But if the difference in the German and Russian clock readings was sufficient ...

Quast's claim at 14:15 is matched well with the air combat of 4.IAP.

Originally Posted by focusfocus

Unless I'm mistaken,I only have 2 claims around 14h00.(Bennemann/Quast)

According to JFV 12/2:
Rall LaGG-3 at 14:15 (according to Wood: Obleser at 16:10)
Obleser at 14:18 (according to Wood: Obleser again at 16:11)

Complete confusion!
What's in the original documents?

Kind regards,
Andrey

[Andrey Kuznetsov]

Hi Michel,

Originally Posted by focusfocus

Others:
17h00/18h00=23 (including Slov/Kroat) vs 402 IAP (5 losses),812 IAP (1 lost)

5 losses of 402.IAP - yes, 812.IAP - maybe (Tyugayev listed as FTR at 17:40 msk = 16:40 DSZ but may have been shot down tens of minutes after he lost his formation).

Originally Posted by focusfocus

16h00=12 vs ?
05h00=5 vs ?
13h00=1 vs ?
11h00=1 vs 291 IAP (1 lost)
I have also 293 IAP (3 damaged) time ?? but what degrees of damage? belly-landings,crash-landings ??

Should be checked later.

Kind regards,
Andrey