Some Thoughts On “Data Mining”

[John Beaman]

We have all experienced “data mining” cookies getting on our computers and having to get rid of them. It is frustrating. However, there is another type of “data miner”. This is the person who makes many posts, always asking for information on things, but almost never gives back.



Those of us who have been messing around with researching the Luftwaffe and Allied AFs for some time, have managed to collect a lot of good information. None of us, I think, mind sharing what we have collected with others. In return, we often need a similar favor ourselves. The Internet has been an especially fantastic tool for this sharing of information.



However, this cannot be a one-way street. I appreciate that often, younger members of this forum do not have the books, resources and especially money to go after expensive books. However, there are libraries. Does any country of a poster not have libraries? Most countries even have the “inter-library loan” whereby your facility can borrow a book from another library. I advise trying these. I also advise, when asking many questions, to state what you have done thus far in your quest. Also, be responsive to requests for information that you could share.



As a moderator of this forum, I do not want to stifle anyone’s quest for knowledge, especially our younger members, but be reasonable in what you ask. If you ask for too much, you may not get any response and that will frustrate you even more. If no one answers your post, don’t make another request: take a hint.

[JeffK]

Gday Guys,

I in no way approach the knowledge of the war in the air that many members of this forum have learnt.

Therfore I do not get involved in some of the more technical threads started. I do read them and try and garner some further knowledge.

I noticed the recent blitz from a new member and some reactions from Members, dont get into a defensive circle about him. If he is honestly seeking knowedge, and if 16 years old , YOU are the learned people who should be directing him, a quick email to explain how things are done on this board and then some helping hand for the information he seeks. Afterall, we all started somewhere, probably hassled the owner of a Bookshop for the best titles etc.

IFF you want to keep information to yourself, or within a small circle, a Internet Forum is not the place to be.

[Ruy Horta]

Jeff,

There are two issues.

Data mining, that is asking (numerous) questions, but never giving anything in return to the community, not even the reason behind the questions. This is what John Beaman is writing about.

Trolling, the (suspected) attempt at disturbing the forum, through many different means (see http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?t=1477).

When we address the issue of "data mining" we are thinking of both sides, including the one who seeks data. Personally I'd be more tempted to help someone who's active and supplies information to others as well, (especially myself) than someone who only takes.

This issue often pops up with book tips.

Question: Please state the Luftwaffe Losses over Britain in Sept. 1940
Answer: Buy The Battle of Britain then and Now (or something similar)

How often is such a tip seen as a sneer?

Far too often I tell you.

When you need answers, show that you've made an effort finding them. The internet is a big place, but tools like Google make it relativly easy to find relevant sites. There are librabries, bookstores and archives all connected to the internet. If you look upon finding answers in that way you can actually get pretty far...

(IMHO the best way to expand your knowledge base is to check the bibliography and notes you'll find in better books, it pretty much forms a steady foundation from where to start your search for knowledge - I follow this reasoning myself - to the detriment of my wallet.)

The whole issue changes when you share knowledge, if you bring in some spare change people are much more likely to help you fill in gaps if you are known to do the same for them or at least within the community.

This forum requires that you've made some effort before typing down that question, if that is too much, than yes this should not be the forum for you.

However if you are willing to put some effort behind your thought and be an active member of this community (not through the number of posts, but the amount of data, information or help), you'll have a much better experience.

Last but not least on this issue.

We are fortunate that a number of authors and historians have joined this community, so it really pays off if you put an effort behind your posts and treat other members with respect.

Yes, you have an easy opportunity to attack these people, but in the end you'll only scare away the main knowledge base of this community. Whereas some kid of 16 can pretend to hold answers, the one answering him may have been (seriously) studying the subject for 30 odd years.

Is this an elitist view?

No, I say it is a practical one.

You want authorative answers, you will have to work at it, including treating the right people with proper respect.

Now to our next subject of Trolls.

I'll keep it short, but you'll notice that respect is something that I hold dear.

Basically a Troll does not respect the community he's attacking, he sees the people within it as part of his ammusement. So if you make an effort by typing a reaction, he's only laughing about the time you must have spent working on it. Seldom will they enter the discussion by means of acknowledgement, more likely they'll start more threads. The Troll is at his worst when he is actively trying to forment discontent within the community. When he tries to find a trigger that will start a flame war. Again his only aim is to see community members arguing with eachother and wasting energy on his little game.

The ultimate aim is to break apart the community, the essence of any forum.

A real troll is dangererous, but there are many who exhibit troll behavior.

In this case I'll take caution over laissez-faire, if I expect you to be a Troll, you'll notice soon enough. Only if I have real doubt will you get a warning.

The best way to find Trolls is to ignore those who you suspect.

Let me repeat.

A Troll offends the whole community.