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  #1  
Old 4th August 2009, 23:25
Bruce Dennis Bruce Dennis is offline
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RAF Bomber Command 'Y' Reports

Hello, can someone help? Did any of the WWll ‘Y Reports from Bomber Command survive?

Thanks in advance,

Bruce

(I am also posting this question on RAF Commands Forum)
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Old 5th August 2009, 05:38
RodM RodM is offline
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Re: RAF Bomber Command 'Y' Reports

Hi Bruce,

the simple answer, unfortunately, is that very few survive. I know that late war Forms Y for 466 Squadron are preserved at the Australian War Memorial in Australia, and researcher Richard Koval has found a small amount of Forms Y for a few RCAF squadrons at the Library and Archives Canada.

Random samples can sometimes be found scattered among various AIR 14 files at The National Archives, Kew, but, I, for one, have not found a series.

As you are probably aware, the Form Y was a summary for an individual bomber crew about events witnessed during a sortie. The Forms Y were sent by the squadrons to their Group HQ, where the data was collated in to a Group Form Z, which was then transmitted to Bomber Command HQ and also the BC Operational Research Section. No comprehensive archive of Forms Z appear to have been preserved at The National Archives, but BC ORS copies can be found in the post-war Raid Plot files for selected months between 1943-45 (search the term 'raid plot' in the TNA catalogue under series AIR 14), and a few (possibly misfiled) copies in the Group Summaries of Operations file (search 'group summaries' in the TNA catalogue under series AIR 14).

Cheers

Rod
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Old 5th August 2009, 15:01
Bruce Dennis Bruce Dennis is offline
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Re: RAF Bomber Command 'Y' Reports

Thanks, Rod, that pretty well sums up my experience so far in trying to find any surviving examples, and I am working with Richard Koval to find any remaining in the Kew files. If you or anyone else knows the specific location of these random pieces in AIR14, I would be grateful.

Concerning the Form Z, you will find a good collection of Z reports in the Night Raid Reports series AIR 14/3409 to AIR 14/3412, covering 1942 – 1945.

Thanks again,
Bruce
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Old 6th August 2009, 07:09
RodM RodM is offline
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Re: RAF Bomber Command 'Y' Reports

Hi Bruce,

firstly, thanks for the heads up on the inclusion of Forms Z with the Final Night Raid Reports (I just hope that there is a decent sample of them for Feb-Apr ;45 in AIR 14/3412).

With regard to the 'random' Forms Y that I mentioned, I should clarify that they are really random and usually consist of a single example here and there in AIR 14 and AIR 40, mostly to highlight some event or happening.

It is a real shame that the Forms Y and Z were not conscientiously preserved...

Cheers

Rod
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Old 6th August 2009, 23:33
Bruce Dennis Bruce Dennis is offline
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Re: RAF Bomber Command 'Y' Reports

PHP Code:
[quote=RodM;90037](I just hope that there is a decent sample of them
 
for Feb-Apr ;45 in AIR 14/3412).
 
[/
quote
Sorry, Rod, I looked at that file today and there are no Z reports. The Zs I found earlier were in 1942, and I will look at 1943 when I can, and post results. It would be good to nail this down.

Regards,
Bruce
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Old 7th August 2009, 03:38
RodM RodM is offline
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Re: RAF Bomber Command 'Y' Reports

Hi Bruce,

thanks for the additional info. I had obtained paper copies of reports from AIR 14/3412, bbut there were, of course, no Forms Z copied (but I hadn't asked for them!).

The references for the BC ORS Night Raid Plot files that contain copies of the Forms Z are:

AIR 14/3213 Raid plots : night 1942 Apr.
AIR 14/3214 Raid plots : night 1942 July
AIR 14/3215 Raid plots : night 1942 Oct.
AIR 14/3216 Raid plots : night 1943 Mar.
AIR 14/3217 Raid plots : night 1943 Apr.
AIR 14/3218 Raid plots : night 1943 July
AIR 14/3219 Raid plots : night 1943 Aug.
AIR 14/3220 Raid plots : night 1943 Oct.
AIR 14/3221 Raid plots : night 1944 Mar.
AIR 14/3222 Raid plots : night 1944 Apr.
AIR 14/3223 Raid plots : night 1944 June
AIR 14/3224 Raid plots : night 1944 July
AIR 14/3225 Raid plots : night 1944 Sept.
AIR 14/3226 Raid plots : night 1944 Nov.
AIR 14/3227 Raid plots : night 1945 Jan.

Sadly, as can be seen, only a selection of months was analysed. I have a copy of AIR 14/3227 in it's entirety - it doesn't cover all raids; only selected major ones, and even then, a very small percentage of the Group Form Zs were missing for a couple of nights.

The references for the Group Summaries of Operations, where I found perhaps half-a-dozen Form Zs in AIR 14/3080, 3082, 3084 are:

AIR 14/3063 Group summaries of operations during day 1944 June
AIR 14/3064 Group summaries of operations during night 1944 June
AIR 14/3065 Group summaries of operations during day 1944 July
AIR 14/3066 Group summaries of operations during night 1944 July
AIR 14/3067 Group summaries of operations during day 1944 Aug.
AIR 14/3068 Group summaries of operations during night 1944 Aug.
AIR 14/3069 Group summaries of operations during day 1944 Sept.
AIR 14/3070 Group summaries of operations during night 1944 Sept.
AIR 14/3071 Group summaries of operations during day 1944 Oct.
AIR 14/3072 Group summaries of operations during night 1944 Oct.
AIR 14/3073 Group summaries of operations during day 1944 Nov.
AIR 14/3074 Group summaries of operations during night 1944 Nov.
AIR 14/3075 Group summaries of operations during day 1944 Dec.
AIR 14/3076 Group summaries of operations during night 1944 Dec.
AIR 14/3077 Group summaries of operations during day 1945 Jan.
AIR 14/3078 Group summaries of operations during night 1945 Jan.
AIR 14/3079 Group summaries of operations during day 1945 Feb.
AIR 14/3080 Group summaries of operations during night 1945 Feb.
AIR 14/3081 Group summaries of operations during day 1945 Mar.
AIR 14/3082 Group summaries of operations during night 1945 Mar.
AIR 14/3083 Group summaries of operations during day 1945 Apr.
AIR 14/3084 Group summaries of operations during night 1945 Apr.
AIR 14/3085 Group summaries of operations during day 1945 May


Among other files that I've never checked are:

AIR 14/3137 Group summaries of operations: night 1944 Apr.- May
AIR 14/3434 Summaries of operations 1944 Mar.- Aug.
AIR 14/3436 Summaries of operations 1944 Sept.-1945 Jan.
AIR 14/3437 Summaries of operations 1945 Jan.- June

It seems unlikely that they could contain a large number of Form Zs because of the simple fact that a single month worth of such forms constitutes a very thick file, and the file references given cover a number of months each.

While copies of the Forms Y would have been retained at Squadron level and probably also Group level, the Form Zs had a slightly wider distribution - Group copies, BC HQ and the BC ORS at least - which is one of the reasons why it is such a shame that at least one set of copies was not properly preserved.

Cheers

Rod
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Old 7th August 2009, 04:01
RodM RodM is offline
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Re: RAF Bomber Command 'Y' Reports

'just for anyone else viewing this thread who may be wondering what all the fuss is about, attached are sample images of an RAF Bomber Command Form Y and an RAF Bomber Command Form Z...

Last edited by RodM; 25th February 2014 at 21:54.
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Old 7th August 2009, 12:02
cz_raf cz_raf is offline
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Re: RAF Bomber Command 'Y' Reports

Hi Rod,

any idea how looks forms G and Q of BC? Or at least what they contained?

TIA

Pavel
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Old 29th December 2011, 21:58
Observer1940 Observer1940 is offline
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Re: RAF Bomber Command 'Y' Reports

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Dennis View Post
Hello, can someone help? Did any of the WWll ‘Y Reports from Bomber Command survive?

Thanks in advance,

Bruce

(I am also posting this question on RAF Commands Forum)
Hello Bruce and Rod
I was researching a Night Bomber Op from RAF Driffield in August 1940 and the Intell of the returning Bomber Command crews had survived. I am sure I had them photocopied from one of the Station ORB Appendices Volumes.

All of the crews Intelligence reports were there as separate Signals bound into a volume, except the missing aircraft which crashed and the aircraft which returned early.

Bear in mind that some crews used or landed at forward bases on return, sometimes the Intell was sent to the Parent Station and is filed. However, some of these other forward Stations in Southern England only seem to have a Form 540, with few or non-existant appendices filed.

One of the other RAF Bomber Station's Appendices with a Squadron on the same Op only had one Intell Form covering all their bomber aircraft.

All the Intell Forms I have found were the carbon Signal copies sent by Teleprinter from the Bomber (Parent) Station, where the bomber Squadron was based.

Regards Mark
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