BV138 K6+GK 2./406 shot down 4/11/42

[Leendert]

Brian,

Neither location nor time for the BV138, hence "missing".
Norwegian Northrop went down off N. Iceland.
I surmise that an encounter between both a/c resulting in their losses would have been seen by the convoy it was patrolling?

Regards,
Leendert

[Adriano Baumgartner]

This is not my field, but is there a possibility that they have collided in flight, whilst attacking/defending; or due to cloudy weather?

IF so the P3P would probably have crashed first and the BV 138 might have carried a bir further away?

Did the BV 138 crews kept in contact with "eventual" U-Boots in that area? If so, could an emergency call (if attacked or damaged) by the BV 138 had been captured or heard by some U-Boot crews on that area?

Those could be possibilities for the loss of both? What do you think Brian C?

As I told before, this is not my field and am just following the thread and perhaps thinking from "out of the picture".

A.

[Chris Goss]

There is no evidence whatsoever of a combat or collision. Being so close to the mainland, the presence of U-boats would have been unlikely. The aircraft is missing so any cause is pure supposition

[Seaplanes]

The Norwegian aircraft was Northrop N3PB (PB = Patrol Bomber) c/n 313 with unit markings GS-L of No. 330 (Norwegian) Squadron. The unit was based in Reykjavik but operated detachments of three aircraft each in Akureyri and Budareyri. The plane was lost by unknown causes while on anti-submarine patrol/convoy escort about 20 km north of Skagata on the north coast of Iceland. The plane was observed by the convoy escort vessels spinning into the sea. The body of Qm. Arne Johannes Taarnesvik (pilot) was recovered dead by the USS Bibb and he was buried on Iceland. The two remaining crewmembers, fenrik (2. Lt.) Einar T. Angell Gjertsen (navigator) and Qm. Torolf Magdalon Osland (W/O) was reported missing.

Even if the BV 138C-1 W.Nr. 0310132 K6+GK of Küstenfliegerstaffel 2./406 (based in Trondheim) was reported missing north of Iceland on the same day, it is most unlikely that a collision or air-combat between these two aircraft occured. The convoy did not observe anything like this, and in any case the crash of a BV 138 would most likely be observed by the ships.

[BrianC]

Hi guys

Thanks for the latest thoughts and contributions. So, no evidence of an encounter - but similarly no evidence to deny the possibility of such! As Adriano suggests, the possibility exists that there might have been an exchange of gunfire and the crash of the BV138 was not witnessed or may have crashed on its return flight. One Icelandic source does state that it was shot down by an RAF aircraft (though our friend Eggert says this false news!)

Very interesting!

Take care
Brian

[Chris Goss]

The remains of this aircraft were apparently trawled up in the 50s/60s and nowhere on the wreckage were bullet holes seen. If it was friendly fire, records would still be found and again, no bullet holes. Ergo leave it as an accident

[Adriano Baumgartner]

As I told before, this is not my "ground picnic"...but instead of supposing, I like to "open new roads or try to find possible causes".

What about the weather (icing conditions) that day? Did the NP3B had de-ice facilities on the bord of attack? Did they use (before taking off on patrols) anti-ice fluid?

Similarly, did the Bv 138 had de-ice facilities?

We can not discard a quick build up of ice on the surfaces, if flying on bad weather and in heavy clouds...then stall, etc...

As I told before, I do have not the full description...but am just "from outside the picture" trying to open some kind of possibilities to the dismiss of those 2 combat aircraft probably.

The key to the question may be the Bv 138 crash local....

[Nick Beale]

Originally Posted by BrianC

Hi guys

So, no evidence of an encounter - but similarly no evidence to deny the possibility of such!
Take care
Brian

But abundant evidence that flying in the 1940s was inherently dangerous by modern standards, even if no one was shooting at you. The war is a litany of flying accidents, technical breakdowns, pilot error etc. Thousands of planes did, in effect, simply vanish, including over well-populated areas of Western Europe.

[BrianC]

Hi guys

To resurrect this query, I have just found reference to a He115 of 1./Ku.Fl.Gr.406 being 'shot down' on the same date (4 November) from which the crew was apparently rescued.

Would 1.Staffel have been operating in the same area? Which vessel rescued the crew?

Take care, Happy Christmas one and all
Brian

[igorrB]

Looks like not same. That day Fl.Fu. Lofoten made many attacks on alone sailed steamships between Spitzbergen and Bear Island. He.115 has Flaktreffer BB-motor, i think somewhere there. Bv.138 was lost in "Seegebiet ostwarts Island".